vaccine safety

[freeflybella 0]

How many of you have/have not had your children vaccinated?

And what is your belief that led you to that choice?

(obviously the poll options are incomplete)

I'm struggling with this issue and am curious about others' thought processes...

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[miked10270 0]

Hi Shani,

My wife Iona and her twin brother were both vaccinated in the late 1960s. Iona was fine while her brother had a severe reaction and is severely mentally disabled requiring 24/7 care (Thank You Socialised Medicine).

despite this very personal experience, we've had all 3 of our kids vaccinated. We looked on it as a matter of weighing one risk against another rather than being able to choose an absolutely safe course.

The chances of a child being harmed by vaccination is A LOT less than the chances of a child being equally harmed by the diseases the vaccine will prevent.

The thing is that Severe Allergic Vaccine Reaction is well publicised while the children who suffer because of not being vaccinated is poorly publicised because they're just ill with no rich drug company to blame.

Obviously, I'd counsel FOR vaccination.

Regards,

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[wmw999 2,166]

I vaccinated; however, when he was little, the thoughts about thiosomerol weren't there. I probably would have anyway, but after looking around for formulations that didn't include mercury. The general "you might catch something from it" is far more negligible. Really.

The reason why not vaccinating isn't as big a risk as it could be is because of what's called herd immunity -- most of the kids are immune due to vaccinations, so it's hard for the bug to find the few kids who aren't.

If more and more kids aren't vaccinated, that effect will decrease. And that's a problem. There are kids who really should not get vaccinated due to health conditions -- I figure it's best to keep my (and my son's) shots up for everyone's benefit.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[freeflybella 0]

I similarly know of a family who believes their son was injured by vaccines. He was diagnosed with autism.

They assert that is *really was a case of "he was one way before the shot - and completly different after".

(I also know of innumerable families who know of no injuries at all to their children.)

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[pajarito 0]

I think it depends on which vaccinations. Some are more risk than others. I vaccinated my children with the standard ones. I did not vaccinate against chicken pox.

[pirana 0]

Quote

How many of you have/have not had your children vaccinated?

And what is your belief that led you to that choice?

(obviously the poll options are incomplete)

I'm struggling with this issue and am curious about others' thought processes...

Get vaccinated. Fear of vaccines these days is grounded in about as much evidence as Planet X, tarot cards, and Scientology.

Course you could take it one step further and refuse treatment when a child does become ill. That would REALLY show them!

Unless a qualified physician (Oprah, Tom Cruise, the guys on the Morning Show, etc do not count) suspects AND detects a condition that would dictate otherwise - get it done.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[freeflybella 0]

Herd immunity and predisposed toxic load are two points to consider.

Herd immunity goes along with my own beliefs that we must look beyond the self-serving and consider the greater good. However the safety of your own child sure does challenge that, doesn't it?. Also I'd be so much more willing if I knew for certain that drug companies were looking out for the greater good over their own self-serving needs.

(I'm not a conspiracy theorist, really, just trying to sort it all out.)

And toxic load is SO HARD to understand - not being a physician/scientist/naturopath, etc.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Get vaccinated. Fear of vaccines these days is grounded in about as much evidence as Planet X, tarot cards, and Scientology.

Course you could take it one step further and refuse treatment when a child does become ill. That would REALLY show them!

Unless a qualified physician (Oprah, Tom Cruise, the guys on the Morning Show, etc do not count) suspects AND detects a condition that would dictate otherwise - get it done.

There are risks associated with some vaccinations.

[freeflybella 0]

"these days"

Did you know that a rotavirus vaccine given to newborn infants approved in 2000 was pulled from public use because it caused fatal bowel obstructions?

A 'new and improved' one was introduced a couple of years ago.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Fear of vaccines these days is grounded in about as much evidence as Planet X, tarot cards, and Scientology.

You are a person of great faith!
I knew it...

[miked10270 0]

Quote

I similarly know of a family who believes their son was injured by vaccines. He was diagnosed with autism.

They assert that is *really was a case of "he was one way before the shot - and completly different after".

(I also know of innumerable families who know of no injuries at all to their children.)

I can quite belive it. What is your paeditrician's reccommendation?

The point I make is that vaccination does carry a risk. It's small, but it's there. It's also well documented and publicised.

What's harder to find is data on children who haven't been vaccinated, have caught the diseases and have been permanently disabled as a result. Parents willing to say: "I didn't vaccinate my kid and now he's dead / in a wheelchair!" are less willing to publicise this.

Along with near universal vaccination came a forgetting of just how nasty these diseases could be. They were permanent disablers, debilitators, and killers! Consider how the childhood mortality rate went down with the introduction of vaccines.

Here's the UK National Health Service link on immunisation for your info:

http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/

Hope this helps.

Mike.

PS. If you immunise, there is a single point of miniscule risk. If you don't, then your kids can be susceptible to these illnesses for life!

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[billvon 2,465]

>There are risks associated with some vaccinations.

Of course. There are risks associated with learning to walk, too. The question is - which is the greater risk? Disease or adverse reaction? Also, is the (small) decrease in public health worth the (small) chance of adverse reaction?

[pajarito 0]

Quote

>There are risks associated with some vaccinations.

Of course. There are risks associated with learning to walk, too. The question is - which is the greater risk? Disease or adverse reaction? Also, is the (small) decrease in public health worth the (small) chance of adverse reaction?

You have an amazing talent for pointing out the obvious.

He said: <>

He was being cynical about being suspicious about getting vaccinations. He even compared it to being a religious nut in a cult. I think it's wise to investigate rather than dismiss concerns outright. Most have been shown to be harmless and the good definitely (greatly) outweighs the risks. However, there are some with legitimate concerns. Discounting this by comparing the risks assumed to that of everyday life (breathing, walking, living in general) is kind of ridiculous.

I didn't answer above b/c there needs to be another category. I vaccinate but it depends on which vaccinations we're talking about.

[Royd 0]

I'm 52 yrs. old and had the mumps and chicken pox by the age of 6yr.
As far I know, I only received small pox, polio, and a couple others.
I just saw an article in the paper yesterday about rats who live in everyday environs are healthier than lab rats.
The childhood diseases that only cause temporary discomfort, should be allowed to run their course so that the immune system is allowed to do the job that it was designed to do.
There is a huge increase in allergies because our environs are those equivalent of the lab rat.
Get the kids outside and expose them to the world.

[billvon 2,465]

>Most have been shown to be harmless and the good
>definitely (greatly) outweighs the risks.

In that case I apologize for agreeing with you. Won't happen again, I promise!

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

Get vaccinated. Fear of vaccines these days is grounded in about as much evidence as Planet X, tarot cards, and Scientology.

Course you could take it one step further and refuse treatment when a child does become ill. That would REALLY show them!

Unless a qualified physician (Oprah, Tom Cruise, the guys on the Morning Show, etc do not count) suspects AND detects a condition that would dictate otherwise - get it done.

There are risks associated with some vaccinations.

There are risks associated with getting out of bed each day. There are risks associated with taking a bath or shower. They are pretty much nil compared to foregoing hygeine the rest of a person's life.

Vaccinate the kids.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

"these days"

Did you know that a rotavirus vaccine given to newborn infants approved in 2000 was pulled from public use because it caused fatal bowel obstructions?

A 'new and improved' one was introduced a couple of years ago.

Yes, of course. If you look long enough and hard enough (I do), you can find a chink in any armor. What people forget, and a sensationalizing media and the woo-woos who believe all the cultish BS leaves out, is that prior to vaccinations, some of these diseases killed big numbers on a very steady basis.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pajarito 0]

Quote

>Most have been shown to be harmless and the good
>definitely (greatly) outweighs the risks.

In that case I apologize for agreeing with you. Won't happen again, I promise!

Sorry dude. I'm just used to you countering everything I say. Took me by surprise.

[kallend 1,672]

My father had a sister who died from complications after a smallpox vaccination (this would be back around 1906), and he refused to have any of his children vaccinated. I could never see the logic of his position; in any scheme of risk analysis, vaccination is a better option than non-vaccination for killer diseases like polio, smallpox (back when), diphtheria and measles. I got myself a smallpox vaccination when I was an adult (and before the eradication was complete).

I had measles (a potential child-killer) when I was 6. I wish measles vaccines had been available back then. I still remember it as being very nasty.

I'm not so sure about vaccines for diseases that are merely inconvenient.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pajarito 0]

Quote

There are risks associated with getting out of bed each day. There are risks associated with taking a bath or shower.

WTF are you talking about? I say you've got to examine the risk vs. benefit of each one and make a decision. How is that illogical. The risk of putting foreign bodies in your bloodstream is different from whether or not you might fall down in the shower. If you're so carefree, why not throw caution to the wind and play a nice game of Russian Roulette? I mean, you could develop an allergic reaction to milk at breakfast tomorrow morning. Why not?

[billvon 2,465]

> I mean, you could develop an allergic reaction to milk at breakfast tomorrow morning.

That's actually a good comparison. There is currently an effort underway to put warning labels on milk and other dairy products to protect people who have dairy allergies, lactose intolerance and protein hypersensitivity. In rare cases, consumption of dairy products have killed people.

Fortunately, there are alternatives to dairy products for these people.

[Michele 1]

I had all my vaccinations/innoculations back when I was a kid - late 60s-early 70s. We weren't allowed in school if we didn't have them, iirc, and so me and my brother got them.

There were no ill effects from them whatsoever; both my brother and I were just fine. His kids are all going through the vaccinations, as well; they are 6, 5, and 2 years old, and it's that time. So, they do it and there's been no issues at all.

I had chicken pox at 28. Nearly died. There was no vaccination for that when I was a child, and despite being exposed many, many times to it as a child/teen, I didn't get them until accidental contact with someone when I was older. As an older person, it can be very bad, and lots of complications are normal when you get it outside of the growing-up years.

Sure there is a risk of adverse reaction. But it's miniscule, and imho not worth worrying too much over. The adverse reactions to catching polio, chicken pox, et all is far greater than is the risk of getting the vaccination. I'd vaccinate my kids if I had any...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Nightingale 0]

You may have had a very, very mild case of chicken pox as an infant (sometimes parents think it's just a rash), and were immune as a child. We've been discovering that chicken pox immunity can wear off years later if you're not repeatedly exposed, which might explain why you got it when you were 28 but not as a kid. Periodic reexposures keep our immunity to chickenpox high, and without those reexposures you can sometimes catch it again.

[lawrocket 3]

My kid was vaccinated. He will continue to get vaccinated. In fact, when he gets his vaccinations, his physician is kind enough to offer to vaccinate me, and I am confident enough to accept the offer.

There are risks with vaccinations. For example, people with allergies to eggs don't do well with most flu shots. However, vaccines are generally safe and effective.

I noticed the thing about the "herd immunity." The only problem with that is that it's the reason why we have those sporadic epidemics of mumps, measles, etc. Sometimes it makes it more difficult for doctors and public health officials to identify the disease and also to neutralize it.

As a parent, I have the option of determining whether my son will or will not be vaccinated. I'd rather run the 1/100k risk of a severe adverse reaction than the 1/10 risk of seeing him suffer from a preventable disease.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[freeflybella 0]

Hi Mike,

My ped will do what I want. She agrees that a hepatitis vaccine at birth, and a full load of vaccines by one year (including MMR) is alot for a young, immature body to bear.

I am considering vaccinating on a delayed schedule.

Regardless of the link of thimerosal to autism, thimerosal scares me. It absolutely is a neurotoxin. Most people believe that mercury is no longer used vaccines and it is not true. Specifically the flu shot.

I just can't imagine taking my baby to the doctor for a 'routine' visit and never having the same baby again. Especially when the red flags have been raised.

My son just got over a nice fat case of rotavirus. It was bad. But he's over it and less susceptible to future infections. He isn't dead from a bowel obstruction. <--pajaritos case in point.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi