Cost of war

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.

What evidence do you have that terrorism would be down if we hadn't invaded Iraq? What proof do you have that there weren't 2nd, 3rd, 4th, attacks planned after 9/11? Please provide proof that 100,000 Americans wouldn't have been dead right now instead of 2400 soldiers.

and were is your information saying that they would be !

I'm not the one who said we are less safe.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Pure speculation. You actually have no idea what would have happened if we hadn't invaded. How can you say that SH wouldn't have gotten frustrated with the UN sanctions and started supporting OBL or Zarqawi.
You have no idea what really happened to the WMDs we know he had. Still think he just poured them down the sink?

Perhaps you can accurately predict what will happen if Iran develops nukes, too.
There's no question AQ has been kept contained by the war and you have no idea how many terrorists attacks they may or may not have carried out if we hadn't attacked.

[billvon 2,435]

>Pure speculation.

You'd have to take that up with the State Department. Their statement, not mine.

>You actually have no idea what would have happened if we hadn't
> invaded.

Well, I know we'd have 2500 fewer dead US soldiers. Other than that - who knows? The most likely scenario:

The UN completes their investigation. No WMD's found.
The US blusters and threatens, claiming they don't believe it.
Iran becomes a big pain in the ass.
We relax our stance on Saddam so he can help us pressure Iran.
We stop worrying about Saddam's WMD program until the next time he irks us.

>You have no idea what really happened to the WMDs we know he
>had. Still think he just poured them down the sink?

No, I think we bombed the shit out of him and destroyed them. We dropped a QUARTER MILLION bombs on him before the latest Iraq war even started. That's 227,000 bombs ranging from 10 to 2000 pounds. If someone dropped a quarter million bombs on your neighborhood, then demanded you account for your financial records, what would you show them? Confetti? What would you be trying to hide?

>There's no question AQ has been kept contained by the war . . .

Believe it if it helps you sleep at night. I hope the people in charge of our security do not believe such fairy tales. In the real world, the number of their attacks around the world have been increasing.

[Royd 0]

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We would have never spent this money on Aids, or higher education,

What are we going to do? Teach college freshmen how to read, write, spell, and do math?

[Dancergirl 0]

i think this little girl just about sums up Sadam Hussain.... http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c102/dutch225ttc/320.jpg

but no reason to invade his country though

[kallend 1,651]

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Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.

What evidence do you have that terrorism would be down if we hadn't invaded Iraq? What proof do you have that there weren't 2nd, 3rd, 4th, attacks planned after 9/11? Please provide proof that 100,000 Americans wouldn't have been dead right now instead of 2400 soldiers.

You come over like a broken record with these absurdly STUPID demands.

How about you provide PROOF that Kerry would have been a worse president than Bush (a frequent claim made right here on DZ.COM by your ilk).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Terrorism is up worldwide since we invaded Iraq, and we are less safe than ever.

What evidence do you have that terrorism would be down if we hadn't invaded Iraq? What proof do you have that there weren't 2nd, 3rd, 4th, attacks planned after 9/11? Please provide proof that 100,000 Americans wouldn't have been dead right now instead of 2400 soldiers.

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You come over like a broken record with these absurdly STUPID demands.

Not quite as stupid as people who actually believe SH wouldn't have pursued and obtained more WMDs as soon as the UN sanctions were lifted. Or do you and your ilk still buy into the Fairy Tale that he could have only gotten WMDs from the US?

Oh, since you are on another angry rant because I challenged you in another thread, let me make it perfectly clear this is my opinion.

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[skydyvr 0]

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I could think of one way we could have done it much cheaper, and prevented us from ever being in Iraq or Iran for that matter within our life time, but I digress.

I can think of a cheaper way to fight the war too.

The US could save a TON of money by forgetting all that silly smart-bomb technology and just carpet bomb the backwards fucks back to the stone age (not a far journey from where they are now), then just march in, take the oil and create the 51st state.

In other words, we may as well behave just as we are framed by the world along with the most flatulent backyard-shitting America haters on the planet -- American Liberals.

. . =(_8^(1)

[skydyvr 0]

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>BULL SHIT!

Well, there ya go. As long as you feel safer, I guess that's what matters. It's no fun to be scared.

Each year that passes without a successful attack on American soil is a day that makes you more wrong than you were the year before.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Lucky... 0]

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Hatred and fear will usually win over compassion.

You forgot greed.

[Lucky... 0]

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In case you forgot what this thread was about.

We have spent $286,429,796,292 on the Iraq war witch I can easily say most people think was wrong to start.

It is good to think what the money could have done

If any of this information in my thread is incorrect feel free to point it out.

But I mean come-on man where do you see me say Iran is better or make any such comparison.

The only time I mentioned Iran was to answer your question.

Really grow up.

The fact that you choose to live here effects nothing as to the topic, but you'll learn the devotees from the right tend to turn the argument against a person rather than the issue.

[Lucky... 0]

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>We have spent $286,429,796,292 on the Iraq war witch I can easily say most people think was wrong to start.

More generalizations you can not back up. Talk about waiting for the laughter to subside.........

Uh, don't the polls, even the Fox polls garner your attention?

[Lucky... 0]

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What did Iraq have to do with 9/11? I fail to see the relevance of your diatribe.

Nice try but false

[Lucky... 0]

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What makes you think that Iraq caused 9/11? To the degree that it deserves what it is getting now, which is more attention than Afghanistan?

You can say he sponsored terrorism; however, others sponsored it too. Is it just that we decided to pick Iraq? It was their (un)lucky day?

There is not a significant amount of evidence supporting that Iraq had a causative effect on 9/11. They were not Iraqis. They were not trained (at least mostly) in Iraq. They were not funded (at least mostly) by Iraq. Iraq has not been calling for the destruction of the US.

War is not cool. It's not the "making of a man" or of a president. It's the worst of all possible ways to settle a difference, and should be the absolute last resort. It shouldn't just take "they told me I could, and I'm the president so I decided to." That's a stupid rationale.

Wendy W.

These kind of people see an Asian and think: Chinaman. They see a turban and think: Arab Terrorist.

[Lucky... 0]

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>BULL SHIT!

Well, there ya go. As long as you feel safer, I guess that's what matters. It's no fun to be scared.

Each year that passes without a successful attack on American soil is a day that makes you more wrong than you were the year before.

As Kallend stated, the current Iraq war is containing AQ. So is it a victory to spend the kind of money we do to justify that small and temporary victory? Or would you have us spend that kind of money forever to keep them tied up? That would fiscally kill us, so that empty victory is fruitless.

[Nightingale 0]

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How many children were left without Mom or Dad?

How many soldiers' children have been left without Mom or Dad?

[mnealtx 0]

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Reminder:

Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. So your whole post is based on BS.

Try again

No, it's deliberate right wing propaganda. If you tell the big lie often enough, people will believe it (paraphrased from Josef Goebbels).

Ansar al-Islam

Salman Pak

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[skydyvr 0]

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Or would you have us spend that kind of money forever to keep them tied up? That would fiscally kill us, so that empty victory is fruitless.

Two years ago, I thought there might be some real victory at the end of the rainbow in Iraq, but I've since lost confidence in the entire government's ability to do that or anything else right. And in the coming sets of elections, we'll just elect more of the same.

. . =(_8^(1)

[rushmc 18]

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>If there is to be a fight we take it to them or we die here.

Were you really scared back in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was going to come over to the US and kill you?

Terrorist bill, terrorists, and don't say there is no link to them because that one has be debunked and is now the lie.

Been reading NewsMax again, haven't you?

Try the National Enquirer, it's more credible

The fox news quip didn't work so you decided to try something different?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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Bullshit. If this is about our security, it's about like "securing" your house by putting up a big wall, then going around and shooting the dogs of neighbors that look like the one that bit you.

You'd be surprised at just how motivated really pissed-off people can be, and if you're the one who pissed them off, well, guess who they'll be motivated against.

Even in a house, eventually you have to go buy groceries. In a country, it's way more open. We cannot secure ourselves from terrorists by first generating a lot more, then building walls and searching ferry boats.

Saddam Hussein was a bad man. So is Mugabe, and the head of N. Korea, and a whole bunch of other people. We can't take them all on and survive. We'll be stupid if we try to. And the more we distance ourselves from other countries and other cultures, the more likely we make it for them to see us an someone unlike them, and therefore a subject of contempt, fear, or hate.

Is that really the goal? You can be secure by moving to somewhere really remote and not going out. There is risk associated with any lifestyle, and managing that risk should involve reducing it as early as possible, rather than putting a barrier up to it.

Wendy W.

I think the big differnce between those you list and SH was he was exporting and supporting exporting terror activities. Aimed directly at the US.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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>What evidence do you have that terrorism would be down if we hadn't
>invaded Iraq?

The State Department recently released a report detailing how Iraq was becoming a breeding ground for terrorists due to the secterian violence. Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator who supressed such violence. Now that we are there and the country is tearing itself apart, we have created conditions ideal for the creation of new terrorists.

>Please provide proof that 100,000 Americans wouldn't have been
>dead right now instead of 2400 soldiers.

Easy:

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CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq
Recommends freeing detainees held for weapons knowledge

Updated: 6:24 p.m. PT April 25, 2005
WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.
---------------

Once again supporting the lie that WMDs were the only reason the US went into Iraq.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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What makes you think that Iraq caused 9/11? To the degree that it deserves what it is getting now, which is more attention than Afghanistan?

You can say he sponsored terrorism; however, others sponsored it too. Is it just that we decided to pick Iraq? It was their (un)lucky day?

There is not a significant amount of evidence supporting that Iraq had a causative effect on 9/11. They were not Iraqis. They were not trained (at least mostly) in Iraq. They were not funded (at least mostly) by Iraq. Iraq has not been calling for the destruction of the US.

War is not cool. It's not the "making of a man" or of a president. It's the worst of all possible ways to settle a difference, and should be the absolute last resort. It shouldn't just take "they told me I could, and I'm the president so I decided to." That's a stupid rationale.

Wendy W.

These kind of people see an Asian and think: Chinaman. They see a turban and think: Arab Terrorist.

Wow, you are a mind reader!

Got any idea what I am thinking now

Gotta group up those that disagree. Typical tactic.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,260]

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Gotta group up those that disagree. Typical tactic.....

I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

After all, they're only America hating liberals.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

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Gotta group up those that disagree. Typical tactic.....

I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

After all, they're only America hating liberals.

touche

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,651]

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>What evidence do you have that terrorism would be down if we hadn't
>invaded Iraq?

The State Department recently released a report detailing how Iraq was becoming a breeding ground for terrorists due to the secterian violence. Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator who supressed such violence. Now that we are there and the country is tearing itself apart, we have created conditions ideal for the creation of new terrorists.

>Please provide proof that 100,000 Americans wouldn't have been
>dead right now instead of 2400 soldiers.

Easy:

--------------------
CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq
Recommends freeing detainees held for weapons knowledge

Updated: 6:24 p.m. PT April 25, 2005
WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.
---------------

Once again supporting the lie that WMDs were the only reason the US went into Iraq.

Changing your tune again. Yesterday you were claiming that there were WMDs. Now you're claiming that the non-existent WMDs weren't the sole reason for the invasion. What will be your line tomorrow in your unceasing attempts to defend this incompetent lying administration?

Unfortunately for you and Newsmax, the speeches of the various administration officials prior to the invasion are all available for all to read, and give the lie to your version of events.

Maybe you should re-read Colin Powell's speech to the UN Security council justifying the invasion to see what the given reasons were. And then re-read his post-retirement comments on that speech. Then just shut-up with the revisionist history and Newsmax propaganda.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.