AIDS, The Deadliest Epidemic in History

[Royd 0]

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I just can't figure out why this disease is spreading

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Years of misinformation is the main culprit.

What exactly does misinformation have to do with anyone getting aids. I would say that disobeying the laws of nature, and of common sense is far more likely. Go back and read cause and effect.

[wmw999 2,153]

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What exactly does misinformation have to do with anyone getting aids

What laws of nature? The one that says "it feels good if you do that?"

That one is a pretty strong law for a lot of people. The one that "you can get diseases if you have sex" isn't as strong, and if all you tell kids is not to have sex, that first one might well (and obviously does) win.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,435]

>What exactly does misinformation have to do with anyone getting aids.

If you think having sex with a virgin can cure AIDS, you will likely end up spreading AIDS.

>I would say that disobeying the laws of nature . . .

The laws of nature say to have sex. That spreads HIV.

[Guest]

Just goes to show you, it's not nice to fool Mother Nature.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Royd 0]

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What laws of nature? The one that says "it feels good if you do that?"

Sorry that I have to draw a picture, but two men having sex does nothing for the procreation of the species. You forgot to ask about common sense. If you have sex with someone who's had sex with ten other people, who have had sex with............ Hopefully, you get the point.
I beleive that was explained to me in boot camp in 1971 concerning vd.

[Dancergirl 0]

do you still believe the earth is flat, too?

[billvon 2,435]

>Sorry that I have to draw a picture, but two men having sex
>does nothing for the procreation of the species.

A great many species exhibit homosexual sex, including several of our closest relatives (primates.) It's 100% natural. It's just distasteful to some religions/sensibilities. (Note that religions are the province of man, not of the animals.)

[Royd 0]

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A great many species exhibit homosexual sex, including several of our closest relatives (primates.)

I don't think dry humping between a couple of 6mo. old dogs counts as homosexual activity. No self respecting adult bull is going to let another one shove it up his ass.

[Dancergirl 0]

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A great many species exhibit homosexual sex, including several of our closest relatives (primates.)

I don't think dry humping between a couple of 6mo. old dogs counts as homosexual activity. No self respecting adult bull is going to let another one shove it up his ass.

do you think people are gay by choice?

[billvon 2,435]

> No self respecting adult bull is going to let another one shove it up his ass.

You'd be wrong about that. Do a search on "animal sexuality." One result:

"Approximately eight percent of rams exhibit sexual preferences for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams)."

[wmw999 2,153]

I guess I'd thought that we established that the majority of people now are not homosexual. Or is it your contention that really, secretly, they must be if they are HIV positive or have AIDS?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,262]

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No self respecting adult bull is going to let another one shove it up his ass.

Oh right, its only animals with no self respect that are gay

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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I guess I'd thought that we established that the majority of people now are not homosexual

I am totally in agreement, concerning the numbers.

[Flying-Wench 0]

Royd: Why you choose to remian ignorant on the facts, is beyond me. Id MUCH rather be educated. I respect that under their different religions, people have different ideals and thoughts about how things should be and what is right and wrong. And yes you are entitled to your opinions.

However, it is difficult to take ANYTHING you say seriously, since you dont much rely on facts to back up any of your arguments. This kind of attitude, can undo the current good work being done in educating people about HIV. Your solutions are too simplistic for such a complex issue. Laws of nature? As i have said before, do some reading on the social habits of humans before you judge us "heathens" on our activities. NO religion guides the laws of nature.

Have you even BOTHERED to read the posts that myself and Freethefly have provided with LOADS of information on HIV and the current stats? IT IS NOT JUST A DISEASE OF THE GAY OR DRUG COMMUNITY. Sorry for shouting, but how much info do we have to provide to get this across? Young hetero couples are being infected and are in turn passing on this virus, its a fact. Accept it. You cant bury your head in the sand on this issue.

People are going to have sex. Accept it. You cant change it. You have to create strategy based on the facts at hand. Misinformation is absouletly a huge part of the problem. If i had of known 3 years ago the statistics of hetero infections, i might have made some different decisions. Young people are not being warned, and many (as is obvious in this thread) still believe that providing they are not homosexual or a drug user that they are "safe" from the virus. This simply isnt the case.

Im not going to re-spout the info ive been picthing at you for the last 2 days, but i am surprised at this new angle of yours. Firstly it was "bad behaviour" and that those practising "deserved" the virus, now your echoing the HIV anti-gay scare campaigning of the 80's? We have progressed much since then!

Oh and as for your comments on casual remarks and the "hammer", get off your soap box. You made some flippant remarks about me personally, judging me without knowing me, what reaction did you expect? I have a reasonable sense of humour (you have to when theres nothing else to be done!), but you overstepped the line. I can handle most casual remarks on my OWN thanks very much, dont shut other people down just because you got hammered for your own insensitive comments. We ARE trying to stimulate conversation and learning in here.

On that note, great to see involvement in this thread. Curious to know, are the posts freethefly and i are providing useful? CONSTRUCTIVE feedback would be appreciated (the info based ones i mean, i dont claim that my rants would be that useful *grins*)

Have a stunning day people.
FW

[Amazon 7]

Just think how many fewer people would now NOT have HIV had REagan not buried his head and allowed the CDC the funding to figure out what the hell GRID was when it first started to spread. Perhpas some research money would have saved some of the millions who have died needlessly because it was a gay disease and was gods punishment of those evildoers..

Personally I wonder where Reagans soul is now.. since by his judging others he certainly usurped gods authority to judge those people who have died by his inaction and derision.

He certainly died a long lingering death longer than many of the original recipients of the HIV virus.

[Lindsey 0]

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What laws of nature? The one that says "it feels good if you do that?"

Sorry that I have to draw a picture, but two men having sex does nothing for the procreation of the species. You forgot to ask about common sense. If you have sex with someone who's had sex with ten other people, who have had sex with............ Hopefully, you get the point.
I beleive that was explained to me in boot camp in 1971 concerning vd.

Hmm. The last two people I took care of with HIV were women, both of whom contracted HIV from their husbands. One of those women died in February. I had taken care of her in the ER and admitted her to the hospital shortly before she died.

An interesting aside....In April, I rounded on a woman who remembered me....her mom who was with her that night in the ER. She thanked me for my compassion for her daughter, something that she rarely encountered. I'd hate to be one of the people who makes another person's life, who is already facing some pretty tough obstacles, worse....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Flying-Wench 0]

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Just think how many fewer people would now NOT have HIV had REagan not buried his head and allowed the CDC the funding to figure out what the hell GRID was when it first started to spread. Perhpas some research money would have saved some of the millions who have died needlessly because it was a gay disease and was gods punishment of those evildoers..

Personally I wonder where Reagans soul is now.. since by his judging others he certainly usurped gods authority to judge those people who have died by his inaction and derision.

He certainly died a long lingering death longer than many of the original recipients of the HIV virus.

totally.

much has changed, but much also has not. The organisation im with is still fighting to get HIV on the political agenda, especially the increase in hetero tranmission.. to get the resources we need to better educate and undertake research.

We are even fighting to have some of the research directed into better channels. Only now they have started undertaking research looking into protection and preservation of the immune system, as opposed to focusing on killing the virus. Anti virals will bring the viral load down to undetected, but the virus hides in the brain and lymph nodes and is so far indestructable!

But i have to wonder why more research isnt being done on people that HAVE been exposed to the virus, but didnt contract it? I understand about immune systems and vairance betwen people.. but still!

My current partner may have been exposed in the early days of my infection, before i was diagnosed. Typically there is a 3-6 month window between infection and when the virus presents itself in the body and one undergoes sero-conversion and starts to show symptoms (if at all). We are positive (o look a pun *guffaws*) that he would have been exposed and i would have had quite high viral loads at that point of infection.

Why wasnt he infected? The people i donate blood to for research, dont seem interested in examining why HE wasnt infected, and i cant really understand that!

mm.. but anyway..

Interesting read here on HIV research and its "value":
http://www.napwa.org.au/index.php?q=node/437

[Flying-Wench 0]

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What laws of nature? The one that says "it feels good if you do that?"

Sorry that I have to draw a picture, but two men having sex does nothing for the procreation of the species. You forgot to ask about common sense. If you have sex with someone who's had sex with ten other people, who have had sex with............ Hopefully, you get the point.
I beleive that was explained to me in boot camp in 1971 concerning vd.

Hmm. The last two people I took care of with HIV were women, both of whom contracted HIV from their husbands. One of those women died in February. I had taken care of her in the ER and admitted her to the hospital shortly before she died.

An interesting aside....In April, I rounded on a woman who remembered me....her mom who was with her that night in the ER. She thanked me for my compassion for her daughter, something that she rarely encountered. I'd hate to be one of the people who makes another person's life, who is already facing some pretty tough obstacles, worse....

linz

Hey Linz..

Thankyou for sharing that, i dont do the crying thing, but that did bring tears to my eyes. And thankyou for your compassion you have shown to these women.. your right.. it is hard to find these days.

It is people like you that make dark lives brighter.

FW

[Royd 0]

I willinglly accept the numbers as they are presented.

My problem with the whole societal attitude is that we have thrown 4,000 yrs. of wisdom and tradition out the window in the last 40yr. just to satisfy the pleasure of the flesh.
Going out and getting a shot of leg, and for many people, that's all it is, is like going to the store for a six pack of beer or a pack of cigs.
I'll admit that in the early 70's I had my share of decadence. At some point though, the light has to come on.
My problem with the educational system, and it is run by a liberal, socialistic mindset, which is set on the moral destruction of this country, is that, concerning sex eduacation, they discount the best, as being the least, and totally unacheivable. I'm talking about celibacy until your are able to make a rational decision about such things. I would say that very few teenagers are. Under that supposition, why would they pay any more attention to other means of protection or prevention?
Allow me an anology.
The dam has been breeched, and standing on the downstream side , throwing pebbles at the rushing water, will never solve the problem.
Until we go upstream and shut off the flow, we will never solve the problem.

The reality ,from your point of veiw, is that people are not going to stop having casual sex, so we must oblige them by finding a cure.
I don't mean to sound callous, but if a cure is not found in the next few years, there will major death tolls, especially in third world countries. It's sad, but maybe that's the wake up call we will need to get our thinking back on solid footing, and start living life at a little slower,more sensible pace, instead of grabbing all we can, just because we can.

[Dancergirl 0]

your whole arguemnt is flawed

there are MANy people who are not promiscuous, who are only having sex in committed elationships, thats are STILL getting HIV

it can infect anybody, not just people who are having lots of unprotected sex

[Lindsey 0]

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I willinglly accept the numbers as they are presented.

My problem with the whole societal attitude is that we have thrown 4,000 yrs. of wisdom and tradition out the window in the last 40yr. just to satisfy the pleasure of the flesh.
Going out and getting a shot of leg, and for many people, that's all it is, is like going to the store for a six pack of beer or a pack of cigs.
I'll admit that in the early 70's I had my share of decadence. At some point though, the light has to come on.

I think it's funny that you say this now when you're....well....past your prime, rather than back in the 70's you had your share of decadence. Easier to talk about celibacy after the libido's fallen off a bit than it was back then I bet.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Amazon 7]

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My problem with the educational system, and it is run by a liberal, socialistic mindset, which is set on the moral destruction of this country, is that, concerning sex eduacation, they discount the best, as being the least, and totally unacheivable. I'm talking about celibacy until your are able to make a rational decision about such things. I would say that very few teenagers are. Under that supposition, why would they pay any more attention to other means of protection or prevention?

Soooo keeping them dumb as dirt about it and only allowing for celibacy... has worked SOOOOO well...

DUDE. this has been going on for millenia... not just since the 70's...

At least with education they MIGHT be able to make rational choices about birth control... and GOD forbid...disease prevention so they get to the point where they can have a family.

Since Conservatives are doing such a fine job of sex prevention just why is it that the most rapid growth of HIV is in the Southern Bible Belt Red States????

[Royd 0]

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Approximately eight percent of rams exhibit sexual preferences for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams)."

Have you observed a wild herd of anything. All of the butting heads, and ripping, tearing, and strutting is about who's going to get the pussy. The rest of the poor fellows just have to suck it up until they can kick the big boys ass. Maybe, they're just practising for the day when they can get some.

[Royd 0]

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Since Conservatives are doing such a fine job of sex prevention just why is it that the most rapid growth of HIV is in the Southern Bible Belt Red States????

Wake up and smell the reality

Probably because all of the Yankees keep moving down here. Global warming just isn't kicking in fast enough.

[Flying-Wench 0]

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I willinglly accept the numbers as they are presented.

My problem with the whole societal attitude is that we have thrown 4,000 yrs. of wisdom and tradition out the window in the last 40yr. just to satisfy the pleasure of the flesh.
Going out and getting a shot of leg, and for many people, that's all it is, is like going to the store for a six pack of beer or a pack of cigs.
I'll admit that in the early 70's I had my share of decadence. At some point though, the light has to come on.
My problem with the educational system, and it is run by a liberal, socialistic mindset, which is set on the moral destruction of this country, is that, concerning sex eduacation, they discount the best, as being the least, and totally unacheivable. I'm talking about celibacy until your are able to make a rational decision about such things. I would say that very few teenagers are. Under that supposition, why would they pay any more attention to other means of protection or prevention?
Allow me an anology.
The dam has been breeched, and standing on the downstream side , throwing pebbles at the rushing water, will never solve the problem.
Until we go upstream and shut off the flow, we will never solve the problem.

The reality ,from your point of veiw, is that people are not going to stop having casual sex, so we must oblige them by finding a cure.
I don't mean to sound callous, but if a cure is not found in the next few years, there will major death tolls, especially in third world countries. It's sad, but maybe that's the wake up call we will need to get our thinking back on solid footing, and start living life at a little slower,more sensible pace, instead of grabbing all we can, just because we can.

mate, dont tell me what my reality is. you wouldnt have a clue. i dont expect a cure to "oblige" anything i or others do. I am not holding out for a cure, i think it is a long way off and we need to be tackling this NOW. My personal opinion is that prevention is much better than a cure, and yes as you state, this involves getting to the base of the problem.

But you have to be realistic and non-judgemental in your strategy! You cant ignore the facts about human nature! Weve been there and done that in the past and it dont work! Passing out judgments for "bad behaviour" will push things underground, and at that point, education and other preventative measures are virtually useless.

id like to remind you, that i (as well as many others) contracted the virus not by going out and getting a shot of "leg" but by participating as per the norm in a long term relationship. You cant just box the entire HIV community. Our manner of infection is varied, which means that any preventative strategy needs to be multi-faceted to deal with the varied ways in which the virus in transmitted. Your idea of celibacy until one is old enough to make rational decisions.. ie. "keep it in your pants" might work for a section of the HIV community, but for a large majority it wont work.

We have already heard from a number of people who all agree with the facts of human nature. You have to work within your parameters and keep it realistic. Asking humans, teenagers especially, to stop experimenting, is just not going to happen. Think of the drug use campiagns, they have struggled with the same thing. Its been tried, and it didnt work. Why repeat the failures of the past? We cant stop anyone from doing anything, but we CAN work towards ensuring that anything that they do do is safe.

It is a FACT that people will have casual sex, you cant stop it. What we are advocating for is SAFE sex.. and better targetted information that is based on TRUE fact and stats and not scaremongering campaigns and judgments.

And no i dont find your comments callous. It is a hard fact that the death toll from HIV is going to rise. I count myself amongst one of those statistics. And i agree, it should be a wake up call to act.. for many of us, it has been already. It is THE WAY in which we act of which i am debating with you.