How about " I am an atheist, and proud of it?

[JackC 0]

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Someone with a truly open mind, a true scientist, will explore,without prejudice,all aspects of a subject, even though the basic idea is disagreeable to him.
Thus, we cannot discount something out of hand, just because it has moved through several centuries
of translations. I'm sure that the basic tenents are still intact.
I'll take my own advice toward evolutionary theory, and save you the reply.

No religious texts give any decent answer to serious scientific questions. With the god hypothesis, there are no predictions that can be made, no mechanisms that can be tested. In short, as an explanative tool to unravel the mysteries of the universe, the concept of a god is singularly useless. Saying "godidit" is the intellectual equivalent of saying "I haven't got a clue how this works, it must be magic". Dismissing the the whole thing out of hand is just about the only thing left to do.

[Royd 0]

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Decent analogy. I would also add that there's more than one way to get to your destination on that road trip. Even if it's not the way that MapQuest tells you to go.

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Most all other religions are "work based" in that you must do something or a number of things to reach the destination you're referring to. Jesus said he is the only way and that no one reaches that destination except through him. Now, that could be totally wrong but they all cannot be correct. Jesus drew the line in the sand. In light of what Jesus said and did, it is totally illogical to say that all roads lead to the same place.

I fist used the analogy about a key and a saftey deposit box. That was nitpicked. I used one about a roadtrip. It was misinterpreted, and had to be reexplained.
Maybe the reason my anologies are too simple is because the way to eternal life is too simple.
It seems that the intellectuals want all of the boxes checked yes, especially in something that they are skeptical about.
On the other hand, when a certain end is desired, a whole lot of suppositions are overlooked as minor details, and not really worth bothering with, just to reach the goal.
I go back to the example I've used a couple of times. Throwing timelines around like a few million years, here or there, is really nothing.

[pajarito 0]

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Jesus drew the line in the sand. In light of what Jesus said and did, it is totally illogical to say that all roads lead to the same place.

unless none of the religions have it right....

That's what I said : Maybe that's not what I said. Correction: They could all be wrong but they cannot all be correct.

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Jesus said he is the only way and that no one reaches that destination except through him. Now, that could be totally wrong but they all cannot be correct.

[Royd 0]

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Dismissing the the whole thing out of hand is just about the only thing left to do.

Sir, are you telling me that because certain things in this world, which can't be accessed by the five senses, or be anylized by research, do not exist.
Do you believe in the simple concept of Karma?
Are you going to tell me that someone who commits a horrible crime, and gets away with it in the eyes of the law, Is not going to pay an unseen price in this life, or the next?

[pajarito 0]

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Maybe the reason my anologies are too simple is because the way to eternal life is too simple.

It sounds simple in theory but I believe it is extremely difficult in practice. Until we are new creatures in Christ, we are "of the world", "children of wrath", and "enemies of God." Until we are awakened, we are dead in our sin (e.g. What can a dead person do = nothing on his/her own). Once that spark is ignited, one can "begin" to make choices for God instead of themselves. Selfishness and pride are very big obstacles to overcome. Especially since we are so tied to our sin because of our sinful natures. We are drawn to it like an insect is to a light. Dying to our "selves" is probably the hardest thing we could ever do. Our selfish natures are natural to us and it is what we've been accustomed to our entire lives. It is our comfort zone.

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It seems that the intellectuals want all of the boxes checked yes, especially in something that they are skeptical about.

Hence the biggest obstacle, pride. We think we can accomplish our own ultimate destinies without God. We think we are good on our own accord even when the law is compared to our present conditions and we see that we fail miserably. The intellect (place of argument) has to be bypassed and one has to speak directly to the conscience. They know right from wrong. They've always known it. If they're honest, they'll admit that they don't measure up and are in big trouble. When they sin, they do it with knowledge that it is wrong and they are accountable for their action or inaction.

Just posting this also in this thread b/c it's applicable....and I like it.

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"I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived (Romans 7:9). So it is with the work-righteous and the proud believers. Because they do not know the Law of God, which is directed against them, it is impossible for them to know their sin. Therefore also they are not amenable to instruction. If they would know the Law, they would also know their sin; and sin to which they are now dead would become alive in them."
--Martin Luther

Here's another one I like:

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Only the sick need a physician, and only those who are convinced of the disease of sin will appreciate and appropriate the cure of the Gospel.
--Ray Comfort

[philh 0]

"Someone walks up to you on the street, and hands you a key. They tell you that it is a key to a saftey deposit box which contains a fortune. One of three things happens. You think the person is bsing you, and you refuse the key straight out. You take the key, put it in your pocket, go home, forget about it, the wife does the laundry, and the key is lost.
Or, you take the key, go to the bank, open the box, and find out that it was true. Christ is offered to all of mankind. Those who take the key, and open the box, are the ones who are rewarded. The rest have to pay the penalty for rejecting the treasure, which is eternal separation from God and Christ."

In your analagoy, you have forgotten that if you dont take they key you get tortured for all eternity and thats even if you handt been told there is a key to take.
Todays pr minded Christians like to make out hell in their theology is simply seperation form god but thats not what the bible says. Its very clear for example. MAthew 13, 42. "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." So lets sum up the Christian message. Believe in uss or we torture you for all eternity. Doesnt matter if you r a mass killer likely Jef Dahmer, join us and we forgive you. If you r someone that preaches non violence in a violent world like Gahndi you still go to hell becuase of your religious beliefs. Great eh?

[Royd 0]

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In short, as an explanative tool to unravel the mysteries of the universe, the concept of a god is singularly useless. Saying "godidit" is the intellectual equivalent of saying "I haven't got a clue how this works, it must be magic".

I remember in 9th grade earth science being introduced to the concept of universe after universe. I said to myself,"Somewhere out there it all has to stop. It can't just go on forever." The concept of neverending universes can blow the mind, so I just accept it as true. I'm not going to spend my life trying to disprove it, just because my finite mind can't grasp an infinite number of universes.

[Royd 0]

So, we do have a believer amongst the secularists in the UK. Bravo!

[JackC 0]

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In short, as an explanative tool to unravel the mysteries of the universe, the concept of a god is singularly useless. Saying "godidit" is the intellectual equivalent of saying "I haven't got a clue how this works, it must be magic".

I remember in 9th grade earth science being introduced to the concept of universe after universe. I said to myself,"Somewhere out there it all has to stop. It can't just go on forever." The concept of neverending universes can blow the mind, so I just accept it as true. I'm not going to spend my life trying to disprove it, just because my finite mind can't grasp an infinite number of universes.

I don't get it. What's your point?

[derivative 0]

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In short, as an explanative tool to unravel the mysteries of the universe, the concept of a god is singularly useless. Saying "godidit" is the intellectual equivalent of saying "I haven't got a clue how this works, it must be magic".

I remember in 9th grade earth science being introduced to the concept of universe after universe. I said to myself,"Somewhere out there it all has to stop. It can't just go on forever." The concept of neverending universes can blow the mind, so I just accept it as true. I'm not going to spend my life trying to disprove it, just because my finite mind can't grasp an infinite number of universes.

I don't think anyone is trying to "disprove" any religious beliefs. It's the believers who make claims of supernatural activity. Some of us aren't so quick to believe supernatural claims, so we ask you for evidence of your claims outside of your own book of philosophy. If you can't produce this evidence, then you're going to have trouble convincing people to join you.

A comment was made earlier about scientists needing to keep an open mind. I posit that scientists are more open minded than a true believer because the scientist is willing to accept that he may be wrong.

To address the checkboxes comment - if we waited to have all of the answers to life before starting out, we'd never get anywhere. We all start out with questions about the world. How we seek answers to those questions is the difference.

If you want to see supernatural explanatios for natural phenomena, fine. I support your freedom to believe what you wish. I stop supporting you when you choose to legislate your beliefs.

And in spite of what you want to believe, nothing is black and white - it's all just shades of gray.

...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
- T.E. Lawrence

[rehmwa 2]

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Do you believe in the simple concept of Karma?

Now there's an irony score off the map.

Karma isn't any better defined than any other goofy religious concept. (it's a myth designed to promote good behavior in individuals - Christians would call it the golden rule. Either way, it hurts no one and can help some be a better person - so why belittle another for it?)

Funny how 'atheists' also have a desire to cling to religious type beliefs. They just feel better to call it something else (Karma, 'spirituality', etc.)

I think it's (all these subjective belief systems by religious and quasi (yet self proclaimed non)-religious) a mechanism programmed into us by evolution as a survival mechanism.

Won't my face be red if I'm wrong, but I've made my bed (agnostic - read 'don't care' just expect and give courtesy - with a large dose of skepticism) and I'm happy with how it looks.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Royd 0]

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The concept of neverending universes can blow the mind, so I just accept it as true. I'm not going to spend my life trying to disprove it, just because my finite mind can't grasp an infinite number of universes.

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I don't get it. What's your point?

The idea of neverending universes if dwelled upon, can literally boggle the mind. Therefore, the concept has to be accepted by faith, even amongst atheists.

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[pajarito 0]

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The idea of neverending universes if dwelled upon, can literally boggle the mind. Therefore, the concept has to be accepted by faith, even amongst atheists.

Especially the beginnings of it.

[kallend 1,651]

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The idea of neverending universes if dwelled upon, can literally boggle the mind. Therefore, the concept has to be accepted by faith, even amongst atheists.

Especially the beginnings of it.

Why? There's no actual evidence of any beginning.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pajarito 0]

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Why? There's no actual evidence of any beginning.

1st & 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics

[pajarito 0]

Atheistic faith: The sudden appearance of all matter from nothing, by nothing, and for nothing.

[billvon 2,435]

>it is totally illogical to say that all roads lead to the same place.

Not all roads do. But there is more than one road that lets you get where you are going, as well as a great many roads that don't lead there. We agree here; you just think every single road that gets to your destination is labeled "Christ." I think there are a few more than that.

[pajarito 0]

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Not all roads do. But there is more than one road that lets you get where you are going, as well as a great many roads that don't lead there. We agree here; you just think every single road that gets to your destination is labeled "Christ." I think there are a few more than that.

There's only one road that leads to God and that is through Christ. There aren't many roads. Jesus made that clear. You may not buy that but that's what's in the message.

[jakee 1,260]

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Do you believe in the simple concept of Karma?

Now there's an irony score off the map.

Karma isn't any better defined than any other goofy religious concept. (it's a myth designed to promote good behavior in individuals - Christians would call it the golden rule. Either way, it hurts no one and can help some be a better person - so why belittle another for it?)

Funny how 'atheists' also have a desire to cling to religious type beliefs. They just feel better to call it something else (Karma, 'spirituality', etc.)

Well, it would be ironic if royd was an atheist...

I am and I don't believe in karma, I don't believe in spirituality and I don't believe in astral projection. In short I don't believe in any notion of self or conciousness that extends beyond the little electrical and chemical pulses firing around our brains. And when I die my synapses will stop making those little pulses and there won't be any me anymore.

Call me unromantic but I don't see any reason other than blind optimism to think that there is going to be anything more after that. Of course it must be nice to think that there is, I just don't.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pajarito 0]

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I don't believe in any notion of self or conciousness that extends beyond the little electrical and chemical pulses firing around our brains. And when I die my synapses will stop making those little pulses and there won't be any me anymore.

Wow...
That's depressing.

Added: If that's the case, why live by any rules or moral conduct at all.

[Dolph 0]

In one of the messages, you mean.

[pajarito 0]

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In one of the messages, you mean.

There is one continuous thread through the entire Bible from start to finish describing the narrow path one must travel to God.

[rehmwa 2]

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I don't believe in any notion of self or conciousness that extends beyond the little electrical and chemical pulses firing around our brains. And when I die my synapses will stop making those little pulses and there won't be any me anymore.

Wow...
That's depressing.

Added: If that's the case, why live by any rules or moral conduct at all.

1 - I think Jakee is doing fine and it's as good a position as any other.
2 - it's not depressing at all, this is a good life, I think the concept of immortality of some sort is depressing
3 - I like have a moral conduct because it makes this short life better for all - I'm not looking for a treat, I do it because it's the right thing to do (God or no god)
4 - However, if having a spiritual belief system works for some, I won't belittle it. I think the net effect is positive for all of us.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pajarito 0]

1 - I think Jakee is doing fine and it's is as good a position as any other.

I agree with that. See my link "Are you a good person" below.

[jakee 1,260]

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1 - I think Jakee is doing fine and it's as good a position as any other.

Why thank you. I reckon you've got a pretty good outlook on things yourself.

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3 - I like have a moral conduct because it makes this short life better for all - I'm not looking for a treat, I do it because it's the right thing to do (God or no god)

Absolutely. For one thing I've been taught from a very early age a certain code of morality. If I'm too nasty to people it makes me feel bad, and I don't like feeling bad. And like you said co-operation and good moral conduct is essential if we want to live in a civilised world. Sure we could all go out and take what we want but society would collapse and that wouldn't be very pleasant.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?