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I'll give that point. I served, my dad was a full bird Col. USAF. Most all the family served. My point is we have no fuckin business over there to begin w/. Just like NAM. Defend or borders first and keep our nose clean and out of everybody elses beeswax
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
crozby 0
QuoteCan you discern a difference between sanitary disposal, and mutilation as a symbol of hatred?
I never know if you are being serious or joking. If you're joking, then LOL. very funny.
If you're serious, then since when did burning a muslim corpse (when burning muslim corpses is really fucking likely to agitate the not-yet-dead-muslims, considering it's against their religion and all) become a more hygenic, efficient, humain, bridge building option than just say .... ummm.... burying them?
Funny story. I had a sign business awhile back. Next door was a mortician. He came over one day and asked for a hammer and nails as he was sending a body back to the ME after the females cleaned the body. He wanted two hammers to seal the coffin (the women supposedly do it) I told him all I had was a couple screw guns and a box of drywall nails. He didn't like like me after that . Then he really didn't like me when he had no customers and I always asked "business dead lately"? BURN ME and THROW ME OUT THE AIRPLANE__________________________________________
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
twibbles 0
QuoteYou know you make too much sense. The U.S. held insurgents have it better than what we had in military training. You're beating your head against the wall trying to convince whinny liberals who have never picked up a weapon to fight for their rights.
Just yesterday I was in a public library and over heard a young women arguing (at least she was passionate about something) how the U.S. military is wrong in fighting the war on terror. This is where I had to butt in. I asked her what her background was. She told me "I have a degree in extreme liberal studies." I realized already that she wouldn't be open to discussion or other ideas. I just looked at this young women (in her early 20's) and said "That must make you such a worldly person huh?" I figured my input would just be shot down as heresy and she would not even want to hear my experiences. Viper Pilot, I think you're in the same situation here.
Or alternatively, Viper Pilot could be like that woman in the library. The case of someone not open to other ideas can be applied to both side of the arguement.
Eugene
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
twibbles 0
QuoteIt's not wrong how they end up after the attack (e.g. what happened to them b/c of a bomb, bullets, etc), it's wrong what was done with their bodies after they were killed....according to rules of war and international law that is.
Are you saying that the US military has never broken any of the rules of war or international law during the conflict in Iraq? I'm not condoning any of it, i think it's repulsive. But breaking international law, is it qualitative, or quantitative? Is it a case of "they broke the law" or "they keep breaking the law"? Real question, not an attack, i like to know.
Eugene
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Skyrad 0
So its bad to video this but i've seen some pretty fuck up photos on web sites posted by US servicemen as well as videos of US forces killing wounded Iraqis and cheering. Guess you reap what you sow. I don't aprove of either side doing this kind of shit.
[URL]http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm[/URL]
[URL]http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm[/URL]
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Quote
We were talking about a bunch of "hill billies" as you called them, being happy that some enemy died. I'm not saying the other side isn't entitled to being happy when they kill their enemy, but that doesn't give them the right to do the things they do. Talking about how awesome of a shot someone made is apples and oranges to setting bodies on fire and parading them through the street.
We've lost a couple thousand troops over there. They've desecrated how many of their bodies? 4 or 5? Let's not make mountains out of molehills. I'm not saying it's right, far from it, but it's not a common enough occurrence to blame the entire insurgent movement, just like our mistreatment of prisoners hasn't been an indictment of all our troops over there.
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
Skyrad 0
QuoteQuote
We were talking about a bunch of "hill billies" as you called them, being happy that some enemy died. I'm not saying the other side isn't entitled to being happy when they kill their enemy, but that doesn't give them the right to do the things they do. Talking about how awesome of a shot someone made is apples and oranges to setting bodies on fire and parading them through the street.
We've lost a couple thousand troops over there. They've desecrated how many of their bodies? 4 or 5? Let's not make mountains out of molehills. I'm not saying it's right, far from it, but it's not a common enough occurrence to blame the entire insurgent movement, just like our mistreatment of prisoners hasn't been an indictment of all our troops over there.
Blues,
Dave
Yea, the insurgent movement is just misunderstood.... A bit like the punk rock movement, but with RPGs.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Quotebut isn't soveriegnty of states one of the most basic tenets of it?
Yes and no...a state has the ultimate right of sovereignty UNTIL they break certain international laws, one of the biggest ones being humanitarian. Basically, if the world (e.g. UN) sees humanitarian distress at the hand of a govt, the majority group (say the Security Council) can decide that a law has been broken and something must be done...sovereignty goes out the door. Obviously some people think this is wrong...whether it's wrong or right, this is how it is.
There are certain laws, again Humanitarian, that are considered binding to all states, regardless if they have signed onto it or not. So, sovereignty can be legally circumvented in certain scenarios...states can't just play the sovereignty card to avoid invasion, occupation, etc.
QuoteYou haven't a fuckin clue what I know
Never said I've seen/heard everything...I'm not an old bastard yet!
But yeah, I know what you're saying.
QuoteOr alternatively, Viper Pilot could be like that woman in the library. The case of someone not open to other ideas can be applied to both side of the arguement.
You got me! I'm not open to the idea of thinking it's ok to do things like that to another human being. But it's their culture, their religion, etc...bullshit, it's wrong. Everyone has some rights, and those insurgents took some of those rights away. No, I'm not open to the idea of it being ok to light dead bodies on fire and parade them around the street cheering. Sorry, guess I'm close minded.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
QuoteAre you saying that the US military has never broken any of the rules of war or international law during the conflict in Iraq?
No, there's always fuck ups. We're not perfect, I never said that nor will I ever say that. But what international law is broken and to what degree can be questioned. However, I suppose it's more quantitative because they continue to break laws worse than we have (in 99% of the cases...yes, some shitbag US dude has gone to far at some points). There may be US screwups here and there, but in law standards, they're very few and far between. On another note, we adhere to LOAC DAMN WELL. There's not even the hint of comparison b/w us keeping w/ LOAC and the insurgents.
QuoteIt's not wrong how they end up after the attack (e.g. what happened to them b/c of a bomb, bullets, etc), it's wrong what was done with their bodies after they were killed....according to rules of war and international law that is.
I'm familiar with the concept. I just disagree.
I read it as: "It's okay to bomb/shoot/whatever our healthy, breathing, living men, but if you so much as touch one of their corpses, it's on!" To me, there's something fundamentally wrong there.
Jen
"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." - Winston Churchill
twibbles 0
Hey, nobody's perfect.. And by your example, i'm close minded too.. It's a flawed world, we just do the best we can in it, the the US military is doing a lot better then the other guy. And just want to say, keep up the good work.
Eugene
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Eugene
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Quote
All’s fair in love and war
People in love and soldiers in wartime are not bound by the rules of fair play.
But we always claim the other side is worse, so we are justified.
Why is anyone surprised by this? When you value the bullets in your gun over the life of the person across the line, how can you expect anything humane? The person you are trying to kill has a life, has a family, has memories; just like you. In reality they are no different. When anyone is pushed to extremes they no longer act civil. Take away the location and names in the video and I would have a hard time guessing what the citizenship was of the perps in it.
There are a thousand quotes from history on how nastry and ugly war is. The dark side surfaces and the thin walls that prevent us from being savage break away and the flood begins.
My thoughts on this:
1) I hope the family didn't see this video of thier child. No one needs to know their family member was treated this way.
2) Be glad it was done to them after they died instead of having to suffer that much torture.
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
Knock it off
Don't act like you don't think it's wrong to desicrate the dead after they were killed in combat...you KNOW better than that and to imply otherwise is dishonest at best
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