Separation of Church & State

[JohnnyD 0]

That guy was WAY out of line.
I would file a complaint and be sure to repeat exactly what he said and provide copies of the literature he gave you.

I also can't help but wonder what the reaction would have been if the cop was of middle eastern descent and said something along the exact same lines, but substituted allah for god. I'd be willing to bet the reaction would be very different and that is a good indication of how wrong that guy was to do that.

[tcnelson 1]

i suppose the next fantasy you'll relate to me is that the aclu is a non-partisan organization.

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Its good when someone knows their limitations.

yeah, i know mine and yours.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[rehmwa 2]

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Let's look at that for a moment.
We were not told there is a 24 hour 'limit' on reporting a missing person, we were told it is 72 hours. And following some research this morning, I'm told that in fact there is NO time frame what so ever!
A missing person report on a minor "Can And Should" be submitted at the earliest opportunity according to the downtown Police office.

These guys just didn't WANT to do the paper work.

At this point;

1 - DO start with his immediate supervisor. It's not a 'given' that it'll be brushed under the rug. But skipping that person will be a personal wrong to the supervisor, who wasn't in the room at the time, and he'll cooperate less.

2 - DO keep moving up the chain until you do get a satisfactory response

3 - DO make this formal and written. With the appropriate copies to each person's boss and THEIR boss (copy the individual, and two layers of management).

4 - DO go to the ACLU if you reach the top of the department and no one helps you.

No matter how it plays out, the response is always the same. Mountain or molehill, the response is always the same. Don't skip the chain of command and you'll have credibility later if it HAS to go to a very high level.. If you skip anyone, you'll lose credibility and have a more difficult time. If you leapfrog to the ACLU, it's likely you'll be a topic on these forums - "Crackpot or not?"

Do it right, don't kneejerk.

good luck with your kid

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I think you need to complain to as high a level as you can!!! There has to be some state body that oversees local policing so if you don't get satisfaction in your town I'd take up the ladder.

The way you were treat is wrong in so many ways.

I agree. The police have no place doing anything like that. I strongly believe that there needs to be a complaint made to his superiors. (Hopefully he is not representative of the entire chain of command, there!)

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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What would your thoughts be if this was occuring on those new "faith based cities" that I've seen popping up on the nightly news programs? Where you have to be a member of a church to even move to the community becase they passed city ordanices stating that?

Are you talking about in the United States? That is so clearly unconstitutional I can't believe it has been attempted. That is a clear prohibition on the free exercise of religion. If it's truly happening, it needs to be challenged in a very serious way.


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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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i'm sorry...what?

Its good when someone knows their limitations.

http://www.aclu.org/about/index.html

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

...aaaand, nothing at all about that pesky Second Amendment.

You know, the one that the framers threw in there among individual liberties to protect the "right" of the government to have National Guards.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Darius11 12]

Something doesn’t make since to me. Did he know you from a pervious encounter?
I am just trying to figure out how he determined you needed Jesus in your life and that you didn’t already have him in your life.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[wmw999 2,122]

In a small town, if he doesn't see you in church regularly, or at the revivals, then it's likely that you don't go.

Which means you're not part of that crowd.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Richards 0]

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The desk officer then added his own editorial about how the reason the kid ran away is because WE have no morals. He doesn't even KNOW us!
He said that since we haven't accepted Jesus Christ into our hearts, our problems were just starting and that we have nothing to look forward to but hell and damnation.
My wife told him that we are very moral people and that we have a different religion to guide us and that since we are Jewish we don't "accept" Christ the way he does.
He looked surprised and said he'd never met a REAL Jew, but that our religion was a false one and that we needed to speak with some Minister friend of his.
He then gave us several handouts and business cards about his religion and why it's the only TRUE God, Blah Blah Blah.

And someone felt that this gentleman was suited for carrying a gun, badge, nightstick for the purpose of enforcing the law which presumes that "justice is blind" ?

Sorry for his remarks about your religion (assholes seem to have higher fertility rates and therefore breed faster than good people for some reason). Nonetheless it would be worth your while to embarrass the department by giving an interview to your local newspaper. You might just get a formal apology, or even better this bonehead will end up being a crosswalk guard.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[rehmwa 2]

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Nonetheless it would be worth your while to embarrass the department by giving an interview to your local newspaper...

yes, of course, embarrassing the entire department for the acts of a single member will certainly go a LONG way towards getting cooperation from that department in addressing that individual's acts.

brilliant, that will ensure that the entire department doesn't just close up and put up their shields and take an 'us vs them' position instead of working with these people who are asking for help with one of their children



don't stop, have a NATIONAL news conference and slander the entire city's leadership - sue EVERYONE - make a giant stink and hold rallies and carry picket signs. I mean, why even try and find out the level at which the problem exists. Much better to just completely fire everyone in the city and rehire from scratch. Just throw out the good people with the bad. It's worth it to get rid of the one asshat.

win friends, influence people

{{now that's a tirade - If you responded negatively to this post, make that analogous to what happens when people skip trying to fix things nicely and just go straight to the papers and the lawyers}}

people go to the papers and lawyers right away because they are too big of cowards to face those responsible face to face and deal with it like adults. A lot of mountains are created that way from molehills.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Sorry for his remarks about your religion (assholes seem to have higher fertility rates and therefore breed faster than good people for some reason).

I'm avowed areligious, pretty much atheist. And while I deplore religion, I still recognize that for us to call this guy and people like him "assholes" just because we disagree with his prosylitizing (holy shit I don't think I spelled that right...) reflects very badly on us, too.

Let's remember, it's only because we see him from outside his worldview (and that of other religious people like him) that we think he's wrong and acting improperly. Others from his church may think he's a hero, doing "God's work.

It's a very subjective thing, to call him and other religious people "assholes". Can't we disagree with his actions, and even his thoughts and beliefs, without calling names and ridiculing? We can simply constrain our discussion to whether it is appropriate or not for a cop to make religious overtones a part of how he does his police work.

I personally deplore what the cop allegedly said. I think it has no place in the police precinct. But is he an "asshole" for holding views like he does? Dunno. From my point of view, probably. But mine is not the only point of view, now is it.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[wmw999 2,122]

Good post.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,122]

if his religious views stopped him from properly doing his job, then in this case he is an asshole....

But you are right, that is only my opinion

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[Richards 0]

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Sorry for his remarks about your religion (assholes seem to have higher fertility rates and therefore breed faster than good people for some reason).

I'm avowed areligious, pretty much atheist. And while I deplore religion, I still recognize that for us to call this guy and people like him "assholes" just because we disagree with his prosylitizing (holy shit I don't think I spelled that right...) reflects very badly on us, too.

Let's remember, it's only because we see him from outside his worldview (and that of other religious people like him) that we think he's wrong and acting improperly. Others from his church may think he's a hero, doing "God's work.

It's a very subjective thing, to call him and other religious people "assholes". Can't we disagree with his actions, and even his thoughts and beliefs, without calling names and ridiculing? We can simply constrain our discussion to whether it is appropriate or not for a cop to make religious overtones a part of how he does his police work.

I personally deplore what the cop allegedly said. I think it has no place in the police precinct. But is he an "asshole" for holding views like he does? Dunno. From my point of view, probably. But mine is not the only point of view, now is it.

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Ok in fairness my comments were not well thought out. Obviously the man did think he was doing the right thing, so I can grant him that. I still feel he should have refrained from suggesting that their religion was not real. As we are a culture of multiple religions people should attempt to realize that there are many versions of religion, and everyone values their own as much as you or I may value ours ( I am undecided on religion, so I think that makes me an agnostic). He is in a position of authority and trust so he would be able to do his job better if he could be more accepting of other religions. That said I probably went too far with refering to him in the derogatory manner that I did. I tend to get angry when I see nice people hurt and I overreact. This has gotten me in trouble in life from time to time as I tend to jump in and intervene when I see someone being wronged.

Thank you for putting things into perspective.

Cheers,

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[rehmwa 2]

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if his religious views stopped him from properly doing his job, then in this case he is an asshole....

How is that different from this rewrite "if his actions stopped him from properly doing his job, then in this case he is an asshole..."

What other category of 'views' than 'religious' would qualify him for assholeship - are there any viewpoints that would keep him from doing this job that you would approve of?

My big worry is the cop either didn't know or purposely ignored the correct police procedure for processing a missing minor report. For ANY reason, I don't care what reason it was.

The issue is about the poster not getting the correct police response to an issue - the rest is all about the person's motivations (religious, political, whatever). I'd rather respond directly to the lack of action itself, rather than the psychology behind it. But the second bit seems to be the focus here.

edit: I think PJs post is dead on target. Except I don't care what he said. I don't like what he DID.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 0]

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Call your local ACLU office. They can give you some advice about your rights, and may even file a lawsuit for you.

Brie

if you're not in a minority group or you're not a homosexual pedophile, don't expect much from the aclu.

Why don't you just say "niggers, spics, kikes and faggots", like you really mean? You know you're just dying to.

BTW, I Googled it, and the Jewish population of Louisiana as of 2001 was 0.4%. I think that probably qualifies as a minority.

[Andy9o8 0]

Some waiting period for a missing adult is one thing. But doing that, especially for 3 days, for a 13 year old child is unforgivable.

[rehmwa 2]

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Why don't you just say ......., like you really mean?

You really want that to sit there when a greenie reads it?

There's something nasty in the water lately.

(I realize it's not my business, just a friendly ping)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[brierebecca 0]

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if you're not in a minority group or you're not a homosexual pedophile, don't expect much from the aclu.

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BTW, I Googled it, and the Jewish population of Louisiana as of 2001 was 0.4%. I think that probably qualifies as a minority.

I spend a lot of time working for the ACLU, and I can tell you that it spends a lot of time representing members of the majority these days. Especially those who like to express very racist and sexist views.

Brie

edited for another post deletion. My post still responds to the above.

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[Andy9o8 0]

Fine, I let your counsel calm me a bit and deleted it, just to try to be civil. But the next post preserved it, so what the heck. Frankly, I think it's a valid criticism, more people should have the guts to call-out blatant racism in here when it happens.

The moral high ground can be very lonely...

[rehmwa 2]

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just to try to be civil.

Sorry, the 'water' comment was about the general feel of all the threads lately not one Mr. Andy9o8. Brier... might see your post here and edit hers, but nobody can say that you didn't deal with it before any fork came down...

The guy was being cynical about the ACLU, though, that isn't alway based on racism, sometimes it's just cynicism about large organizations. Would a cynical complaint that Planned Parenthood doesn't counsel males be considered sexist?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SwampThing 0]

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Do it right, don't kneejerk.

good luck with your kid

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Thanks for the luck wishes, it's been a rough road with him for a while now.

And yes I am trying not to "knee jerk" an over response to the whole thing.

Granted we were upset with the kid going missing and all, which I'm sure amplified the officers remarks to OUR ears anyway.
And I have no doubt he wasn't INTENTIONALLY trying to push anti-Semitism in a threatening way.

As someone said here, there aren't a lot of us around this area, so most "regular" people among us don't have a reference to draw on.

But the things I've stated here are fact not exaggerated allegations in any way, and the fact that I took offence to both what was said and the way it was said tell me that something happened that shouldn't have and I need to take some kind of action to see no one else like me has to go through
it.

We have NEVER had an encounter with the local Police here of any kind, and they don't know us from
Abraham
So I am willing to bet that EVERYONE that hasn't taken Christ as a personal savior gets similar treatment.

But I don't know for sure, and I think these officers need some kind of retraining to end what I consider a form of harassment, even a "slight" one.

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[Nightingale 0]

Talk to his supervisor. If he isn't fired, talk to the supervisor's supervisor. After that, talk to a lawyer.

Stuff like this is really serious, because it prevents people from going back to the police when they really need help, becase they believe that they won't get assistance because of their beliefs or lack thereof. The officer's behavior was inappropriate and highly unprofessional, and could be considered discriminatory on the basis of religion, which is not only illegal, but unconstitutional.

[airtwardo 6]

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Stuff like this is really serious, because it prevents people from going back to the police when they really need help, because they believe that they won't get assistance because of their beliefs or lack thereof

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I spoke with Swampy earlier this evening, and I think you hit the nail on the head here.

He's upset, but his wife is trying to throw water on the whole situation because she 'fears' as you said...repercussions later down the road.

I told her that by making an issue of it...
through the chain of command as suggested here, she might very well be insuring BETTER relations with the locals instead of worse as she believes.

I can't imagine what it must be like to have been
'insulted' like that and be afraid to do anything because you are fearful of it getting worse.

I truly feel bad for you Flyboy.

Hope it all ends well.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[rehmwa 2]

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Talk to his supervisor. If he isn't fired, talk to the supervisor's supervisor. After that, talk to a lawyer.

This is what I've been saying. Only one thing, do it in writing (don't 'just' talk) and keep copies. Just in case they don't take care of it in-house and you need to show proof that you did the right thing and worked first through his chain of management.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants