miked10270 0 #1 February 10, 2006 This WAS going to be the: "LET'S POST GOOD THINGS ABOUT AMERICANS" thread... But the only thing I could think of was; "They buy up all the Burberry stuff our Chavs wouldn't be seen dead in!" So... WHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? Should we be encouraging folk to kill for their beliefs? Why is video of one side being killed "Great" and video of the other side being killed "Awful"? Why is it OK for "Us" to have, say, Nuclear Weapons but so DANGEROUS for "Them" to have the same weapons? If we feel threatened, then can't we see how they also feel threatened? Why do "We" insist on stereotyping "Them"? And go on to take such offence when "They" stereotype "Us"? Does "Might-Make-Right"? If "We" are right to kill "Them", then are "They" just as right to kill "Us"? Is the invasion of Iraq still a "War of Liberation"? Or has it become something else? Should the end game in Iraq & Afghanistan have been to depose the regime & then withdraw to the start points ready to go in again if the old regime re-surfaced? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #2 February 10, 2006 US us us us us us and THEM them them them them and after all we're only ordinary men Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #3 February 10, 2006 say it pink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #4 February 10, 2006 QuoteUS us us us us us and THEM them them them them and after all we're only ordinary men I guess that quoting PINK FLOYD Lyrics is about the best answer this thread's going to get! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,653 #5 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteUS us us us us us and THEM them them them them and after all we're only ordinary men I guess that quoting PINK FLOYD Lyrics is about the best answer this thread's going to get! Mike. Can't get no satisfaction?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #6 February 10, 2006 There is no true answer, none that anybody will ever agree on. The prevailing attitude is: Us GOOD Them BAD Many of the Muslims engaging in violent protest never saw those cartoons. At least not the actual ones, they were probably shown and told fakes to further a political and/or religious agenda. Just to fuel the hatred. To me, it is no different than what happened in the US leading into the second war in Iraq. Fear and to a degree hatred were used to further a political and maybe even a religious agenda. Us GOOD Them BAD There is no logical explanation for the questions you raise Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MrBounce 0 #7 February 10, 2006 That's a lot of questions, but I think it boils down to the 3 P's Propaganda, Politics and Power George Orwell's 1984 illustrates a lot of this very well. Control the proles, allow outlets for aggression, use selected or false information and retain power. Or maybe I'm just a big ol' pessimist who can't see the good that our organised politcal state is doing for us. Gavin Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. If you don't take it out and use it, its going to rust. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites miked10270 0 #8 February 10, 2006 QuoteThere is no true answer, none that anybody will ever agree on. The prevailing attitude is: Us GOOD Them BAD Many of the Muslims engaging in violent protest never saw those cartoons. At least not the actual ones, they were probably shown and told fakes to further a political and/or religious agenda. Just to fuel the hatred. To me, it is no different than what happened in the US leading into the second war in Iraq. Fear and to a degree hatred were used to further a political and maybe even a religious agenda. So... The answer is that our leaders & their leaders have lied to us. One wonders who benefits from these lies? In the meantime, Hermann Goering is proved yet again and folk help the hatred along. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #9 February 10, 2006 QuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,150 #10 February 10, 2006 at least explain why you think they are bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites miked10270 0 #11 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. In that case, thank you for responding to the effect that you'd rather just languish in bigotry than try to understand others. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kschilk 0 #12 February 11, 2006 Man...your sig, says it all. It was never us, it was never the Muslims...it's always been the French. We need to do the Normandy thing, again...but this time, make it "stick"!"T'was ever thus." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #13 February 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. Totally disagreed. There's nothing bullshit about his questions; they cut to the heart of the matter: why does any man feel he has the right to dictate the way others live? Our way is only good to the extent we have the freedom to do as we choose, short of doing harm to others. That freedom has slowly eroded over time, and it is disappearing even more quickly today. The same answer applies to the Islamic nations. We're both deficient, in degree and in kind. Edited to add: actually, that last sentence isn't right. We're both deficient in varying degree and kind. I'm tired. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crozby 0 #14 February 11, 2006 Quote***blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. LOL. Just stick those fingers in your ears and yell "I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hackb431 0 #15 February 11, 2006 Take any person in the world ask them thier personal belief on any situation. Now the answer they give is the one they feel is right and they will defend their views to the best of thier ability. Some people just have more "ability" to defend what they think is right. It just depends on what side of their views you happen to be on.HackB A.K.A. "Puppy" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,653 #16 February 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. Excellent!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #17 February 11, 2006 Quoteat least explain why you think they are bullshit. The premise behind the questions are false. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #18 February 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteYour questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. In that case, thank you for responding to the effect that you'd rather just languish in bigotry than try to understand others. I don't agree with the premise behind your questions, and therefore I am a bigot? That's more bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #19 February 12, 2006 Q So... WHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? A: It isn't. Q Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? A: They don't. If they're killing other people, then of course they need to be dealt with, but that's because they're killing, not because they're Muslim. Q Should we be encouraging folk to kill for their beliefs? Why is video of one side being killed "Great" and video of the other side being killed "Awful"? A: No. I'd never consider a video of anyone being killed "great." Q Why is it OK for "Us" to have, say, Nuclear Weapons but so DANGEROUS for "Them" to have the same weapons? If we feel threatened, then can't we see how they also feel threatened? A: Well, ten years ago I'd say that we wouldn't use the weapons for anything but self defense. Today, I don't think we can be trusted with them either. Q Why do "We" insist on stereotyping "Them"? And go on to take such offence when "They" stereotype "Us"? A: Stereotyping is human nature. We feel more comfortable when we can pack people up in neat little boxes. It's not a good thing, because stereotypes are generalizations, and nobody's going to fit into a box. Q Does "Might-Make-Right"? If "We" are right to kill "Them", then are "They" just as right to kill "Us"? A: We're not right to kill them unless they're killing us. Q Is the invasion of Iraq still a "War of Liberation"? Or has it become something else? Should the end game in Iraq & Afghanistan have been to depose the regime & then withdraw to the start points ready to go in again if the old regime re-surfaced? A: I don't think Iraq was ever about liberation. Afghanistan was, and we should stay there as long as the new government desires our assistance, and leave when they ask us to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #20 February 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. There's nothing bullshit about his questions; they cut to the heart of the matter: why does any man feel he has the right to dictate the way others live? Ahh, but you changed the form of the question when you rephrased it. You are talking about "any man" who tries to dictate to others. In other words, you are speaking only of those who are actually doing it. And that is in fact the correct way the questions should have been phrased. But instead, the original poster referred to "the American way" and "the Muslim way". But there is no such "way" that dictates that Americans kill everyone who disagrees with them, nor is there any universal "Muslim way" that dictates they kill all those that disagree with them. Some of them do it, sure. But such a characterization should not be generalized to all people in that class. That's why the premise of the questions was bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #21 February 12, 2006 QuoteThat's why the premise of the questions was bullshit. Nope. This thread was a direct response to another, similar thread. That was mentioned in Mike's post. Apart from that, the generalization is made all the time about those who follow Islam. Surely you haven't missed that since you spend so much time in SC. It wasn't bullshit at all, unless you just don't like having the same standard applied to Americans, in general, as Americans, in general, apply to other peoples and nations. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,653 #22 February 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteThat's why the premise of the questions was bullshit. Nope. This thread was a direct response to another, similar thread. That was mentioned in Mike's post. Apart from that, the generalization is made all the time about those who follow Islam. Surely you haven't missed that since you spend so much time in SC. It wasn't bullshit at all, unless you just don't like having the same standard applied to Americans, in general, as Americans, in general, apply to other peoples and nations. rl The "Golden Rule" should apply to nations as well as individuals.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #23 February 12, 2006 QuoteThe "Golden Rule" should apply to nations as well as individuals. Totally agreed. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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MrBounce 0 #7 February 10, 2006 That's a lot of questions, but I think it boils down to the 3 P's Propaganda, Politics and Power George Orwell's 1984 illustrates a lot of this very well. Control the proles, allow outlets for aggression, use selected or false information and retain power. Or maybe I'm just a big ol' pessimist who can't see the good that our organised politcal state is doing for us. Gavin Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. If you don't take it out and use it, its going to rust. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #8 February 10, 2006 QuoteThere is no true answer, none that anybody will ever agree on. The prevailing attitude is: Us GOOD Them BAD Many of the Muslims engaging in violent protest never saw those cartoons. At least not the actual ones, they were probably shown and told fakes to further a political and/or religious agenda. Just to fuel the hatred. To me, it is no different than what happened in the US leading into the second war in Iraq. Fear and to a degree hatred were used to further a political and maybe even a religious agenda. So... The answer is that our leaders & their leaders have lied to us. One wonders who benefits from these lies? In the meantime, Hermann Goering is proved yet again and folk help the hatred along. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 February 10, 2006 QuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #10 February 10, 2006 at least explain why you think they are bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #11 February 10, 2006 QuoteQuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. In that case, thank you for responding to the effect that you'd rather just languish in bigotry than try to understand others. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kschilk 0 #12 February 11, 2006 Man...your sig, says it all. It was never us, it was never the Muslims...it's always been the French. We need to do the Normandy thing, again...but this time, make it "stick"!"T'was ever thus." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #13 February 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. Totally disagreed. There's nothing bullshit about his questions; they cut to the heart of the matter: why does any man feel he has the right to dictate the way others live? Our way is only good to the extent we have the freedom to do as we choose, short of doing harm to others. That freedom has slowly eroded over time, and it is disappearing even more quickly today. The same answer applies to the Islamic nations. We're both deficient, in degree and in kind. Edited to add: actually, that last sentence isn't right. We're both deficient in varying degree and kind. I'm tired. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #14 February 11, 2006 Quote***blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. LOL. Just stick those fingers in your ears and yell "I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hackb431 0 #15 February 11, 2006 Take any person in the world ask them thier personal belief on any situation. Now the answer they give is the one they feel is right and they will defend their views to the best of thier ability. Some people just have more "ability" to defend what they think is right. It just depends on what side of their views you happen to be on.HackB A.K.A. "Puppy" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,653 #16 February 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. Excellent!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #17 February 11, 2006 Quoteat least explain why you think they are bullshit. The premise behind the questions are false. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #18 February 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteYour questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. In that case, thank you for responding to the effect that you'd rather just languish in bigotry than try to understand others. I don't agree with the premise behind your questions, and therefore I am a bigot? That's more bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #19 February 12, 2006 Q So... WHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? A: It isn't. Q Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? A: They don't. If they're killing other people, then of course they need to be dealt with, but that's because they're killing, not because they're Muslim. Q Should we be encouraging folk to kill for their beliefs? Why is video of one side being killed "Great" and video of the other side being killed "Awful"? A: No. I'd never consider a video of anyone being killed "great." Q Why is it OK for "Us" to have, say, Nuclear Weapons but so DANGEROUS for "Them" to have the same weapons? If we feel threatened, then can't we see how they also feel threatened? A: Well, ten years ago I'd say that we wouldn't use the weapons for anything but self defense. Today, I don't think we can be trusted with them either. Q Why do "We" insist on stereotyping "Them"? And go on to take such offence when "They" stereotype "Us"? A: Stereotyping is human nature. We feel more comfortable when we can pack people up in neat little boxes. It's not a good thing, because stereotypes are generalizations, and nobody's going to fit into a box. Q Does "Might-Make-Right"? If "We" are right to kill "Them", then are "They" just as right to kill "Us"? A: We're not right to kill them unless they're killing us. Q Is the invasion of Iraq still a "War of Liberation"? Or has it become something else? Should the end game in Iraq & Afghanistan have been to depose the regime & then withdraw to the start points ready to go in again if the old regime re-surfaced? A: I don't think Iraq was ever about liberation. Afghanistan was, and we should stay there as long as the new government desires our assistance, and leave when they ask us to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #20 February 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWHY is "The American Way" so good that it's OK to force people to follow it, and kill folk who don't want to? Why is "The way of Islam" so good that those who don't want to follow it NEED to be killed? blah blah blah... Your questions are bullshit, and unworthy of a response. There's nothing bullshit about his questions; they cut to the heart of the matter: why does any man feel he has the right to dictate the way others live? Ahh, but you changed the form of the question when you rephrased it. You are talking about "any man" who tries to dictate to others. In other words, you are speaking only of those who are actually doing it. And that is in fact the correct way the questions should have been phrased. But instead, the original poster referred to "the American way" and "the Muslim way". But there is no such "way" that dictates that Americans kill everyone who disagrees with them, nor is there any universal "Muslim way" that dictates they kill all those that disagree with them. Some of them do it, sure. But such a characterization should not be generalized to all people in that class. That's why the premise of the questions was bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #21 February 12, 2006 QuoteThat's why the premise of the questions was bullshit. Nope. This thread was a direct response to another, similar thread. That was mentioned in Mike's post. Apart from that, the generalization is made all the time about those who follow Islam. Surely you haven't missed that since you spend so much time in SC. It wasn't bullshit at all, unless you just don't like having the same standard applied to Americans, in general, as Americans, in general, apply to other peoples and nations. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,653 #22 February 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteThat's why the premise of the questions was bullshit. Nope. This thread was a direct response to another, similar thread. That was mentioned in Mike's post. Apart from that, the generalization is made all the time about those who follow Islam. Surely you haven't missed that since you spend so much time in SC. It wasn't bullshit at all, unless you just don't like having the same standard applied to Americans, in general, as Americans, in general, apply to other peoples and nations. rl The "Golden Rule" should apply to nations as well as individuals.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #23 February 12, 2006 QuoteThe "Golden Rule" should apply to nations as well as individuals. Totally agreed. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
