Skyrad 0 #1 February 4, 2006 Christians worship him as the Son of God, Muslims revere him as the most special Prophet of God. Christians belive in the miracles he perfomed, so do Muslims. Christians belive that he died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead and accended to heaven. Muslims belive he somehow escaped crucifiction because God loved him so much he would never have crucified him, they belive he accended to heaven. Both belive we are living in an escatalogical age and he will return on the day of judgement when man will be judged and either saved or sent to hell. Jesus knew what he had started, he did not come here to bring peace but to turn his followers against each other. Not Peace but Division (Luke 12, 49:53) 49"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." And some people still doubt the bible.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #2 February 4, 2006 QuoteAnd some people still doubt the bible. Actually, a lot of people doubt the bible and they are free to express those doubts and to challenge Christian doctrine in public. We can even draw blasphemous cartoons of Jesus Christ without fear of human reprisal. Or tell bad jokes Q: Why can't Jesus eat M&M's? A: They keep falling through his hands. More "anti-Christian" humor here: http://www.liberator.net/humor/Jesus/Jesusjokes.html No embassies or consulates were burned in response to that website. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #3 February 4, 2006 Free speach does not and can not exist in a democracy, it is illegal to incite racial hatred, it is illegal to deny the holocust in Europe, it is illegal to incite murder and quite rightly so. I also belive that it should be illegal to incite religious hatred as well, be that against Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Bahais or whoever. If people respected others belifes this world would be a whole lot happier. (and I think the point of my post went totaly over your head BTW)When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #4 February 4, 2006 QuoteFree speach does not and can not exist in a democracy, Horse-hooey. In America you cannot falsely shout “fire!” in a crowded place because you would trigger a panic reaction which could injure people irrespective of their politics or religion. It’s common sense to place a minor restriction on absolute freedom of expression because the exclamation only serves to cause physical harm to other human beings, there is no countervailing legitimate reason for the speech. You are, however, permitted to openly display Christianity’s most-revered symbol, the crucifix, submerged in a jar of urine because the derivative symbology serves a legitimate purpose, i.e., commentary on a religion and its doctrines. This dichotomy is what distinguishes our concept of “ordered liberty.” So while speech is not completely free in the sense that I can falsely yell “bomb!” on an aircraft, I am indeed free to publish offensive content on matters concerning politics, religion and historical interpretation and my commentary will be protected by our Constitution. Quote it is illegal to incite racial hatred, it is illegal to deny the holocust in Europe, it is illegal to incite murder and quite rightly so. Because these acts are tantmount to falsely screaming “fire!” or “bomb!” like above. QuoteI also belive that it should be illegal to incite religious hatred as well, be that against Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Bahais or whoever. If people respected others belifes this world would be a whole lot happier. You should be permitted to express this position freely! In America you are also free to say openly that you feel people who observe these religions are a bunch of poop-head fanatics and they deserve to be caged. That's how it should be in a democracy. Quote(and I think the point of my post went totaly over your head BTW) I think I understood your point, it’s just that I didn’t wish to engage in a religious discussion on how the Bible can create division among people who otherwise share a lot in common because I see that as being obvious on its face. Thankfully I am free to express my position, even if I was to “say” it by drawing a cartoon of Jesus Christ bashing non-Christians into smithereens with a crucifix. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #5 February 4, 2006 Your post went over my head as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #6 February 4, 2006 So stand on a chair and read it again.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 1 #7 February 5, 2006 QuoteI also belive that it should be illegal to incite religious hatred as well, be that against Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Bahais or whoever. I'm pretty sure the Danish cartoons inspired much less anti-muslim hatred within the West than the violent reaction to them did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #8 February 5, 2006 QuoteFree speach does not and can not exist in a democracy, it is illegal to incite racial hatred, it is illegal to deny the holocust in Europe, it is illegal to incite murder and quite rightly so. LOL! Those things are not illegal in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Only in Europe, where people's governments don't trust them with freedom. Well, except for the "inciting murder" part. We can't do that one, and that's fine with everyone, including me. Quote I also belive that it should be illegal to incite religious hatred as well, be that against Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Bahais or whoever. I guess I should not be surprised. QuoteIf people respected others belifes this world would be a whole lot happier. Yes, and if experience has taught us anything, it clearly is that morality and thought can easily and effectively be legislated. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #9 February 5, 2006 QuoteQuote it is illegal to incite racial hatred, it is illegal to deny the holocust in Europe, it is illegal to incite murder and quite rightly so. Because these acts are tantmount to falsely screaming “fire!” or “bomb!” like above. HOW is denying the Holocaust anything like screaming "fire!" in a theater? Criminalizing denial of the Holocaust actually brings a society one step closer to the next one. If you don't like someone's viewpoint or doctrine, overcoming it by SUPPRESSING it via criminal penalty is illegitimate. You don't actually win that way; likely all you will do is drive that ideology underground to flourish there. No, instead, you win if you open up discourse, debate with your detractors, and you have the more sensible position, and express it articulately to the masses and they see its reason and adopt it for their own. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #10 February 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteI also belive that it should be illegal to incite religious hatred as well, be that against Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Bahais or whoever. I'm pretty sure the Danish cartoons inspired much less anti-muslim hatred within the West than the violent reaction to them did. That's the irony of just how stupid and irrational these motherfuckers are. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #11 February 5, 2006 QuoteHOW is denying the Holocaust anything like screaming "fire!" in a theater? Post-WWII Europe was so nearly concomitant with a period when many Europeans had been conditioned to accept extermination of the Jews to avoid social disruption, a period immediately on the heels of a time when many Europeans actually DID try and kill all the Jews, that denying the Holocaust was deemed to be de facto equivalent to screaming “fire!” in a crowded space. Denying the Holocaust quite likely would have resulted in the deaths of Jews and the speech did not have redeeming social value then. QuoteCriminalizing denial of the Holocaust actually brings a society one step closer to the next one. Your position may have arguable validity today. Certainly one could argue that was the case with the Armenian Genocide preceding the Holocaust. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #12 February 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteCriminalizing denial of the Holocaust actually brings a society one step closer to the next one. Your position may have arguable validity today. Of course. Criminalizing denial of the Holocaust is simply the criminalization of thought and ideology. Quite simply, it is the government telling you what you may think and express. That's a pretty goddamned dangerous precedent to set. Say what you will about the U.S., but apart from bullshit "hate crime" laws, we don't have laws telling you what you may express politically, and we are far better off for it. (And besides, although I don't like them, "hate crime" laws don't ensnare you unless you also commit a regular kind of crime in the first place.) --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #13 February 5, 2006 QuoteCriminalizing denial of the Holocaust actually brings a society one step closer to the next one. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #14 February 5, 2006 QuoteSo stand on a chair and read it again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ojibwe 0 #15 February 5, 2006 If you're interested, there's a good description of the life and teaching of JC in the Urantia Book. Not pushing it, no pressure, no arguement.Peace,MB 3864 Urantia Book and RUSH fan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martin-o 0 #16 February 5, 2006 QuoteLOL! Those things are not illegal in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Only in Europe, where people's governments don't trust them with freedom. Hmm, strange, I always believed Europe was a continent and not a country. Or is a continent a legislating institution. Would that then mean that Canadian laws are enforced in the US? Please shed some light upon this subject since what I’ve previously learnt doesn’t seem to be right… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 1 #17 February 5, 2006 QuoteFree speach does not and can not exist in a democracy, it is illegal to incite racial hatred, it is illegal to deny the holocust in Europe Kind of an ironic argument to make here when a major Islamic head of state is doing just that. Why is it okay to deny the holocaust but not to show Mohammed with a bomb-turban? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #18 February 5, 2006 Okay, since you picked a scripture out of the Bible, let's take a look at it. First, who is Jesus saying Luke 12 to? Why is He saying it to them? What is the history behind the people He's talking to? What context is it given in? You have to consider all these things when reading a scripture---you can't just pick out the parts you like or the controversial parts Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
