Chicago plans High School for Black Males

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

And you're the one that keeps going back to race.

not at all - I keep going back to class (however, if you bunch class issues only into race lines, than I understand why you were putting out those statements belittling less intelligent children)

Quote

your comment that if kids are intelligent and work hard they won't have a problem so nothing needs to change

I never said that and never would - you are doing this on purpose

{{I'll keep falsely exsalating your comments until you stop falsely escalating mine - it's a crappy tactic}}

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

However, it is a different culture. This may sound cliche, but it is very hard to make it out of those neighborhoods. Not because the children there are sub-par, but many things are missing to help them get to the next step, too many things missing for their parents, etc....and too many strong negative incluences that are often too much for any young mind to overcome.

And at what point do you balme the person and stop blaming the area? If they are a criminal, was it them, or the block they grew up on? People can make choices, its the great thing about being human.

If a person makes bad choices it is not the fault of the part of town they grew up in. Abe Lincon learned to write on a shovel.

I never said that some people do not have more chances. A rich kids son has more available such as tutors ect. I know that. But what I also know is that people make choices. If a person decides to spend his afternoon watching TV he made a choice not to spend that time reading and doing homework.

The biggest factor IMO is the parents, not the area.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Of course. But you would likely do very poorly in a school if you did not understand the language used there, at least until you learned it. Even then you might not do as well as other people there who were raised with that language. That would not be evidence that you're dumb, just that you have the wrong background for that particular school. Indeed, you might even be tempted to go to a special school where they can help you get specific education to deal with your 'problem.'

Yes, but in Chicago I bet most blacks speak english.

You would be correct if we were talking about a school in Miami or CA. and Hispanic's.

[kallend 1,648]

Quote

Didn't look anything up....don't see what the enclosed arena has to do with it, in context...

If you don't count the horses, Wendell took 12 classmates...

I guess you should have looked it up, then.

Gee, I thought EVERYONE knew the rules of polo!

Now, on to questions concerning Real Tennis, cricket, and the Eton Wall Game...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

...Now, on to questions concerning Real Tennis, cricket, and the Eton Wall Game...

Trying to understand Cricket always made my head hurt.

Then the solution to this is to eliminate the word problems in favor of pure math probs.

Science is also culturally neutral. A newton is a newton is a newton, black or white.

Vocabulary is a tenuous issue, but which will increase the possibility of success--Modern Standard English or some ghetto dialect that is about as intelligible as a Xhosa "click" Language?

You do the math.

Agreed?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[billvon 2,434]

>but in Chicago I bet most blacks speak english.

Right, but they don't understand cricket, or what a queue is, or what a telly is. So they might do poorly in an english speaking school in the UK.

It's not just language.

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

>but in Chicago I bet most blacks speak english.

Right, but they don't understand cricket, or what a queue is, or what a telly is. So they might do poorly in an english speaking school in the UK.

It's not just language.

I don't remember the SAT including "queue," "Cricket" referring to the game, or "Telly" in reference to the Muppet or the Television...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

>but in Chicago I bet most blacks speak english.

Right, but they don't understand cricket, or what a queue is, or what a telly is. So they might do poorly in an english speaking school in the UK.

It's not just language.

If it were not for skyding I would not have known about a "queue" either.

I do understand how a home can influence how much experience a person gets. And even their work ethic. And that is my point. It is their home that is the biggest influence, not the block they grew up on.

Knowing that, I also know that people can rise above or just go along. I can not blame society if someone decides to "Go along".

Bill, at what point do you stop blaming society for a persons performance?

[kallend 1,648]

Quote

Quote

.

Science is also culturally neutral. A newton is a newton is a newton, black or white.

I'm willing to bet there are many inner city kids right here in Chicago who have never seen a star in the night sky, or an ox-bow lake or a mountain. So astronomy and geology questions could easily harbor bias.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

• Quote

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

.

Science is also culturally neutral. A newton is a newton is a newton, black or white.

I'm willing to bet there are many inner city kids right here in Chicago who have never seen a star in the night sky, or an ox-bow lake or a mountain. So astronomy and geology questions could easily harbor bias.

I'd wager that is because of crappy education. If parents wanted their kids to know these things, there are opportunities. I grew up in Chicago, and knew these things, because my parents encouraged education.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

• Quote

[billvon 2,434]

>I don't remember the SAT including "queue," "Cricket" referring to
>the game, or "Telly" in reference to the Muppet or the Television...

That's because it's written by US educators. Here's an example of an SAT question from a while back:

RUNNER: MARATHON ::

A) envoy: embassy
B) martyr: massacre
C) oarsman: regatta
D) referee: tournament
E) horse: stable

Now, let's say student A went to a yacht club that had rowboats and regattas, and whose family owned a horse. Student B played basketball in the street. Which one is going to get that question right?

[billvon 2,434]

>Bill, at what point do you stop blaming society for a persons performance?

I don't 'blame' anyone. It's no one's fault. It is, however, a good thing to try to solve, because an educated populace is a law abiding, hard working, socially advantageous one. In that respect, a new school that targets at-risk students is a good thing. If it is open to all, even better. If they exclude students based on their race or sex, bad on them.

[kallend 1,648]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

.

Science is also culturally neutral. A newton is a newton is a newton, black or white.

I'm willing to bet there are many inner city kids right here in Chicago who have never seen a star in the night sky, or an ox-bow lake or a mountain. So astronomy and geology questions could easily harbor bias.

I'd wager that is because of crappy education. If parents wanted their kids to know these things, there are opportunities. I grew up in Chicago, and knew these things, because my parents encouraged education.

Stars are things you see at the planetarium, right?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

• Quote

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

>I don't remember the SAT including "queue," "Cricket" referring to
>the game, or "Telly" in reference to the Muppet or the Television...

That's because it's written by US educators. Here's an example of an SAT question from a while back:

RUNNER: MARATHON ::

A) envoy: embassy
B) martyr: massacre
C) oarsman: regatta
D) referee: tournament
E) horse: stable

Now, let's say student A went to a yacht club that had rowboats and regattas, and whose family owned a horse. Student B played basketball in the street. Which one is going to get that question right?

That question is indicative of an overly-anglophile test writer, and should have been taken out in the validaton process of the test, before it was fielded.

Note: "Anglophile" does not equal "racist/biased."

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[billvon 2,434]

>That question is indicative of an overly-anglophile test writer, and
> should have been taken out in the validaton process of the test,
> before it was fielded.

I agree! And it eventually was. But that's the sort of cultural bias you can see on tests, and it is because of questions like that can lead to one group doing more poorly on standardized tests.

[kallend 1,648]

Quote

Quote

>I don't remember the SAT including "queue," "Cricket" referring to
>the game, or "Telly" in reference to the Muppet or the Television...

That's because it's written by US educators. Here's an example of an SAT question from a while back:

RUNNER: MARATHON ::

A) envoy: embassy
B) martyr: massacre
C) oarsman: regatta
D) referee: tournament
E) horse: stable

Now, let's say student A went to a yacht club that had rowboats and regattas, and whose family owned a horse. Student B played basketball in the street. Which one is going to get that question right?

That question is indicative of an overly-anglophile test writer, and should have been taken out in the validaton process of the test, before it was fielded.

Note: "Anglophile" does not equal "racist/biased."

But the point is that the test writers and test validators are usually from the same culture and often fail to see the bias in a question.

The research and evidence is overwhelming.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ReBirth 0]

I declare this thread hopeless.


HITLER.

There....

[kallend 1,648]

Quote

I declare this thread hopeless.


HITLER.

There....

Who authorized a Godwin invokation?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ReBirth 0]

Goering.

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

Interment camps in WW2.

There goes your theory.

That's a terribly weak response. Internment camps aren't measurable against 400 years of slavery and oppression.

Quote

People like you would rather blame anything other than the person and their family.

"People like me" understand that "the person and their family" are fucked up due to 400 years of racism and opportunity denied. You're back to square zero.

We're 50 years into righting the ship against racism in this country. Another 50, we might get there.

. . =(_8^(1)

[brierebecca 0]

Quote

Is it right or wrong? Eh, I'm not going down that road as too many uneducated opinions will stem from that. However, something needed to be done - I'm curious to see if this will have a positive outcome. I hope it does.

I'm curious as to the outcome, too. Personally, I think the Court of Appeals ruling I brought up earlier is pretty controlling. I found the case, and it is directly on point. Therefore, according to the court, if you want something done about the drop-out rate among black males, you can't establish an all-male school in the inner-city (where the population is predominantly black) to combat the problem. The court suggests that there are other ways to do this, and utilizing the public school system is not the answer.

To break it down for you, the Court of Appeals said NO to an all-male high school in a predominantly black area because it is a form of affirmative action. In order to have a form of affirmative action that discriminates in the basis of sex (this is an all-male school) you have to have a compelling state interest in order to regulate. The Court of Appeals for whatever federal circuit Detroit is in has already said that black male drop-out rates are not a compelling state interest, and the Supreme Court denied cert. End of story. Find some other way to combat the problem.

I'm not saying I'm not in favor of this type of affirmative action. I am, however, saying that when you're trying to fix a problem, usually you don't go with the options that have already been disallowed by the Federal Circuit. That seems like a dumb idea to me.



brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[ReBirth 0]

Did your other case deal with charter schools, which is what this appears to be? I happen to know for a fact that there are all male and all female schools in this country.

[brierebecca 0]

there are all male and all female schools in the country, but they're not public. That's the issue. the government is subsidizing the school, and so they have to provide the compelling interest.

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[ReBirth 0]

How do charter schools fit in that debate?

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

I don't 'blame' anyone. It's no one's fault

That is a problem. Someone is to blame. If no one is to blame then nothing can be done.

Quote

an educated populace is a law abiding, hard working, socially advantageous one. In that respect, a new school that targets at-risk students is a good thing. If it is open to all, even better. If they exclude students based on their race or sex, bad on them.

Did you see my say anything to the contrary? I just think that the best solution is to make parents get involved in their childrens education. And to make children take ownership of their own education. Less time with the Playstation and more with the school books. That is the biggest area for improvement.