pajarito 0 #651 July 13, 2006 It may take me a little while to sort through all of this but I will respond. In the meantime, THIS might be helpful. Just a friendly suggestion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #652 July 13, 2006 QuoteBut yet you cling to the riduclous notion that rastach is only used for ""Do not put anyone to death without cause." Even though the bible/Torah uses the word for killings it itself describes as justified. I don’t know how to make what I’m trying to say more clear. Here it is again. Note the bold text and the ***. QuoteThe verse translated "Thou shalt not kill" in the KJV translation, is translated "You shall not murder" in modern translations - because these translations represents the real meaning of the Hebrew text. The Bible in Basic English translates the phrase, "Do not put anyone to death without cause." The Hebrew word used here is ratsach, which ***nearly always*** refers to intentional killing without cause ***(unless indicated otherwise by context)***. Just FYI for others here who don’t have 8 years Hebrew education. Not for you, of course. Other words used for killing. harag (Strong's H2026) 1. to kill, slay, murder, destroy, murderer, slayer, out of hand a. (Qal) 1. to kill, slay 2. to destroy, ruin b. (Niphal) to be killed c. (Pual) to be killed, be slain Part of Speech: verb A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root Same Word by TWOT Number: 514 muth (Strong's H4191) 1. to die, kill, have one executed a. (Qal) 1. to die 2. to die (as penalty), be put to death 3. to die, perish (of a nation) 4. to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct) b. (Polel) to kill, put to death, dispatch c. (Hiphil) to kill, put to death d. (Hophal) 1. to be killed, be put to death a. to die prematurely Part of Speech: verb A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root Same Word by TWOT Number: 1169 QuoteYou just dont want to admit the bible is contradictory when its clear as day that it is. How would that be a “contradiction?” QuoteMy comments are certainly not racist. First off Im Jewish by upbringing myself. Why would that preclude you from saying anything racist about your own people? Anyway, you said: QuoteIts from the bible written by the hebrews , a race that committed genocide against the Cannanties. So why should we trust them? Disregarding whether or not it was justified or not in the case of the Canaanites, how is yours not a racist statement? Germans were responsible for the Holocaust. Should we not trust them as a people? QuoteSecondly all biblical scholars agree that OT was written by Jews, do you despute that? Furthermore the bible itself claims the Hebrew armies slaughtered all the Cannnanites, so its hardly racist of me to acuse them of a crime they themselves boast about. Nor do I restrict my distrust of conqquering armies propaganda to Hebrew armies; its common to most armies throuought history. Did I ever say that the Old Testament was not written by Jews? Also, what I said about your statement being racist before had nothing to do with your stating what the Bible says about the Hebrews and the Canaanites. QuoteThis argument assumes that god exists and that god is perfect. What youa re basically saying is god is perfect so thereofre god is perfect. See the ciruclar argument here? furthermore by saying God is just and holy you are judging god in the same manner as I am. You are simply coming to a different conclusion. I’m not making this up. I’m just stating what the Bible says about God. QuoteHe is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. Deuteronomy 32:4 QuoteBut god is not of the character you say even within the bible. Adultory an extreme violation? Why then do we have this passage in Hosea 1;2 "2The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms " His character has never changed. Context is everything. QuoteWhen the Lord began to speak through Hosea, the Lord said to him, “Go, take to yourself an adulterous wife and children of unfaithfulness, because the land is guilty of the vilest adultery in departing from the Lord. Hosea 1:2 QuoteGod’s relationship with Israel is frequently compared to a marriage contract; Israel’s “departing from the Lord” in order to worship idols was treated by God as spiritual infidelity or prostitution. Hosea’s marriage was to be an object lesson for the unfaithful northern kingdom. Gomer was likely not a prostitute at the time of her marriage, but she would after turn to physical adultery and immorality, perhaps as a prostitute in the temple of Baal. Her departure from the Lord led not only to false worship, but also to lower moral standards. QuoteOr how about lying; 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: QuoteFor this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 QuoteAfter the removal of the restrainer and the revelation of the lawless one (antichrist), there will be no more opportunity for salvation for a particular group of people. 1) This group consists of all those inside or outside the church who, after adequately hearing the truth of God’s Word, have willingly and intentionally refused to love that truth and have chosen instead to delight in the wickedness of the world. 2) God will send those individuals a powerful delusion so that they may never again have an opportunity to believe the truth they refused to love. They are forever doomed to believe “the lie.” (e.g. harden their hearts after God’s patience has run out) 3) God’s purpose in sending the “powerful delusion” is that they “will be condemned.” ***Therefore, for those who have heard and understood God’s Word, yet have not loved its truth but have chosen instead the pleasure of sin, “no sacrifice for sins is left, but only fearful expectation of judgment.”*** QuoteMore importantly lets look at Isaiah 45; 7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Its right there in your own bible, god is the sourse of all evil. Doubt that and your doubting your own bible. ***I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things. Isaiah 45:5-7 God is expressing his authority over everything. Darkness in this passage has nothing to do with wickedness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #653 July 13, 2006 Why are the bible thumpers using this thread to preach their fairytale to people who are intelligent enough to know that the bible and jesus are NOTHING MORE than myths? The heading is "I'm not a christian...and proud of it! Have you noticed how (Are you a good person?) is attached to EVERYTHING paj posts, or how he and others keep repeating, 'no matter what you "believe" you will be judged when you die."? these things prove that their minds are controlled by fear. THERE ARE NO RECORDS ANYWHERE, other than the Godspells that mention this mythical man. the bible's existence has nothing whatsoever to do with proof of divine inspiration, no reasonably intelligent person would blindy accept this. several people have asked repeatedly, PROVIDE EXIGENT WRITNGS THAT MENTION THE EXISTANCE OF THIS MYTHICAL "CHRIST", but they do not provide anything except (are you a good person? and 'scriptures out of context.) www.christianism.com I say, believe and KNOW this: I am whole, perfect, loving, strong, harmonious and happy. I pass it on to ALL of you! www.jordanmaxwell.comwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #654 July 13, 2006 QuoteHave you noticed how (Are you a good person?) is attached to EVERYTHING paj posts, It's not an attachment. You can do it also HairyOne. Write whatever you want except for the things prohibited by the rules in the signature line of your profile and it will appear every time you post. It's freakin magic! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #655 July 13, 2006 no matter what its a part of everything you post. the book of exodus is total proof of the non-historical nature of the bible. egyptian records translated make no mention of the horrors that exodus 'says' befell them! why don't YOU read 'the christ con- the greatest story ever sold? i'll send you one alsowe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #656 July 13, 2006 Quoteno matter what its a part of everything you post. the book of exodus is total proof of the non-historical nature of the bible. egyptian records translated make no mention of the horrors that exodus 'says' befell them! Yet... It happened. Searching for Moses QuoteThere is plenty evidence for Israelite slavery in Egypt–the sudden disappearance of these slaves, the devastation of Egypt by the ten plagues, the destruction of the Egyptian army–if we look for it at the right time, and time is a vital element in the interpretation of ancient history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #657 July 13, 2006 sorry, fellow man, you just irrefutedly proved my point! egyptian history from that time makes no mention of those events. exodus is a total fabricationwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #658 July 13, 2006 Quotesorry, fellow man, you just irrefutedly proved my point! egyptian history from that time makes no mention of those events. exodus is a total fabrication Ok...... fellow man.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #659 July 13, 2006 QuoteWhy are the bible thumpers using this thread to preach their fairytale to people who are intelligent enough to know that the bible and jesus are NOTHING MORE than myths? The heading is "I'm not a christian...and proud of it! The attachment lists all of the posts (17) made by hairyjuan in the "I am a Christian and proud of it" thread. Why?.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #660 July 13, 2006 Hey hairy, I'm waiting for the book... Why would it bother you, if we believed in the Bible? After all, if the Bible isn't real, God isn't real, what harm comes from us believing? If what we believe is a fairytale, why not let us believe that? Why try and convince us otherwise? Nothing will happen, right? Well, the reason is you are trying to convince it isn't the truth---because if you're wrong, well, you know... My faith in a so-called "fake" God---just how does that affect you in a negative way? It doesn't. Instead of trying to argue, why don't you just let us live life, believing what we want to believe? You can't do it, can you? Just let us believe, no matter how silly that seems... But you can't. To leave a Christian alone, not try and argue and debate---can it be done? I doubt it. ( To just sit there and say, "Okay, they believe differently than I do. I won't try and get them to prove to me God is real, because He isn't. There IS no discussion necessary, because I know God DOESN'T exist. I have peace with what I believe, and therefore I have no reason to try and get others to prove me wrong. I know. They can believe whatever they want to believe, it doesn't affect me at all.") The only real peace that comes in this life, is peace from knowing God personally, and living out His personal plan for your life. Nothing else can bring hope or purpose. Why do people constantly argue about God's existence? Because there is no peace. For those who have never given their lives to God--the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, comes and brings confirmation in your heart and in your SPIRIT, that nothing else in this world can--that the Bible is TRUE, Jesus is very REAL, and there is a heaven. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #661 July 13, 2006 Quote My faith in a so-called "fake" God---just how does that affect you in a negative way? It doesn't. Instead of trying to argue, why don't you just let us live life, believing what we want to believe? You faith may not affect me (in fact, I know it does not) but there are many "Christians" who want to impose their rules and laws upon everyone. If we are all going to be judge by god in the end, why do we need man-made laws to enforce ideas that not everyone holds? I am not trying to defend hairyjuan, but I can easily see why people get bent out of shape at ANY over-zealous religious people. Of course, the same can be said about getting bent out of shape at over-zealous atheists as well. Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #662 July 13, 2006 QuoteThe natural life in each of us is something self-centered, something that wants to be petted and admired, to take advantage of other lives, to exploit the whole universe. And especially it wants to be left to itself: to keep well away from anything better or stronger or higher than it, anything that might make it feel small. It is afraid of the light and air of the spiritual world, just as people who have been brought up to be dirty are afraid of a bath. And in a sense it is quite right. It knows that if the spiritual life gets hold of it, all its self-centeredness and self-will are going to be killed and it is ready to fight tooth and nail to avoid that. --C.S. Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #663 July 13, 2006 prove "jesus" existed, then. NO BIBLES ALLOWED you repeatedly deny that christianity is responsible for wanton death and destruction of millions of lives and ancient records that PROVE the mytholgical nature of the jesus story. Historical FACT: "Jesus" is the seventeenth time that the virgin born crucified saviour myth has been repeated. According to the smith bible dictionary the 'ark of the covenant' was originally an egytian story. Read akenaten's hymn to the sun, psalm 19 is identical, egyptian version was first. Even monotheism itself is an Egyptian idea! Pope Leo X told you the TRUTH, you are just denying it, that's all, "What profit hath that FABLE of christ brought us." The attachments are for your convenience, the page iswww.jordanmaxwell.com enjoy, enjoy ,enjoy!!!!!!we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #664 July 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhy would a triple-O potter make a flawed pot? Because a robot wouldn't make for a meaningful relationship. My love for someone would mean nothing unless I had the choice to not love. Why would a perfect person be a robot? Do you think your God is a robot? Is Jesus a robot? That has to be one of the silliest answers ever.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #665 July 13, 2006 QuoteThe attachments are for your convenience, the page iswww.jordanmaxwell.com enjoy, enjoy ,enjoy!!!!!! The attachments probably do nothing more than take up storage space on the site. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #666 July 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy would a triple-O potter make a flawed pot? Because a robot wouldn't make for a meaningful relationship. My love for someone would mean nothing unless I had the choice to not love. Why would a perfect person be a robot? Do you think your God is a robot? Is Jesus a robot? That has to be one of the silliest answers ever. I have no idea what you’re talking about. I assumed you were asking why an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent potter (God) would make a flawed pot (us). My previous answer was in reference to why he wouldn’t or didn’t as it were. As you already know, we were given free-will to choose or reject God’s love. It means nothing and there wouldn’t be a meaningful relationship if there was no choice. (like a robot) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #667 July 14, 2006 an omnipotent, omniscient ,omnipresent 'god' TOTALLY PREXCLUDES "freewill" your pat response that , that is assinine and absurd, proves the FACT that religion is MIND-CONTROL. www.truthbeknown.com[url]we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #668 July 14, 2006 Quoteprove "jesus" existed, then. NO BIBLES ALLOWED Non biblical accounts of New Testament events and/or people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #669 July 14, 2006 Quotethat is assinine Nice word but it's spelled asinine. Quotean omnipotent, omniscient ,omnipresent 'god' TOTALLY PREXCLUDES "freewill" Why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #670 July 14, 2006 About like a pot on the wheel feeling good about being formed, not knowing it has a huge character flaw, and suddenly gets crushed and thrown aside. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteWhy would a triple-O potter make a flawed pot? Let me say that I find the triple-O thing rather derogatory,and beneath of man of your supposed intellect and station in life. You probably think it's rather cute. One must first accept the principle of sin before you can grasp the idea of flawed humans. I don't think you need a Sunday School lesson on the creation of Adam and his fall from grace, which was his personal choice. His choice brought sin and sin brought death. I don't know that I've ever heard it before, but I believe that the curse of death came upon every living thing, and possibly upon all of creation. The heavens and the earth shall pass away , but my word shall not pass away. Matt.24:35 All desease and handicaps from birth are a result of the curse of sin. I do not have to strike my chest or throw dust upon my head and cry, "Why, God why?" Railing against God for every supposed problem that befalls mankind as an excuse not to believe in Him is denying our part in the whole problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #671 July 14, 2006 Quote I don't think you need a Sunday School lesson on the creation of Adam and his fall from grace, which was his personal choice. His choice brought sin and sin brought death. It really blows my mind that in one of the most prosperous, educated countries in the world people still believe in biblical creation as a literal truth. You really think thats how it happened? Seven days, two people, bad apple, talking snake, the whole nine yards? You actually believe that, you're not just having me on? That is so trippy.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #672 July 14, 2006 Here is a really great website that might interest some... http://www.religioustolerance.org/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #673 July 14, 2006 QuoteIt is my belief that a "Christian" is a follower of Christ. Many people CLAIM to be Christian, because they simply believe in God or doing good to others. Being a Christian to me means following after Christ, worshipping God in every area of my life, "picking up MY cross," suffering/being persecuted for being a Christian, and doing everything I can to follow God's word. A follower of Christ will not bat an eyelash at the thought of dying for one's faith. I would rather die than renounce Christ. Me too, Windcatcher. That's a pretty good description of what a Christian is. His followers were first called "Christians" just a few years following His ascension.Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #674 July 14, 2006 QuoteYou really think thats how it happened? Seven days, two people, bad apple, talking snake, the whole nine yards? You actually believe that, you're not just having me on? Well then, it's your turn to explain the concept of sin and the reality of death. Also explain how we as humans are the only creatures with a fear of death. I'm not talking about the self preservation of a gazelle runnning from a cheetah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #675 July 14, 2006 QuoteAlso explain how we as humans are the only creatures with a fear of death. I'm not talking about the self preservation of a gazelle runnning from a cheetah. I love it! 'Explain this concept to me. But by the way, any examples you can provide don't count!'Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
