Hooknswoop 19 #1 September 4, 2005 OK, some people couldn't for different reasons. What of the ones that could have and didn't? What of the ones that could have left and didn't that are now complaining about the poor response by FEMA? Those that didn't think it was going to be that bad and didn't leave made the same mistake FEMA did. Except now FEMA takes all the heat. If you didn't leave because you didn't think it was going to be that bad, you made the same mistake FEMA did and it would be hypocritical to criticize FEMA now. It is kinda like rear-ending someone because you were following too close and then getting out and yelling at the person that hit you because they were following too close. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everon 0 #2 September 4, 2005 The problem is that FEMA, among others (the white house, state and local governments) knew for some time that the levees would be breached in a cat 4/5 hurricane. To be sure, there would have been those that had the "I'll weather it" mentality. But, having known this, as I've stated in another forum, somebody should have been emphatic and told the residents that death is a real possibility if you stay. They knew, and were not emphatic. I blame all of them. The ones that stayed and could've left would have thought twice if the truth was laid out emphatically. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #3 September 5, 2005 The people of NO were told to leave every day for three days before Katrina made landfall. The ones that stayed, couldn't afford to leave. One of my colleagues told me when i asked him the same question "Why didn't they leave?" told me "The people that didn't leave are doing the same thing there now they were doing before the floods, robbing, killing and stealing" Got me to thinking. By the way this gentleman is a NO native.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #4 September 5, 2005 >Why didn't they leave? 1. They had no means i.e. they had no car, no money and were too out-of-shape to walk more than a block or two. 2. They were too stupid to leave. Remember that for every Stephen Hawking, there is someone just as dumb as he was smart. 3. They had some other problem that prevented them from leaving, like taking care of someone who couldn't leave. 4. They were planning on looting. 5. They did not believe the warning; conspiracy theorists are everywhere. 6. They were incapable of understanding the threat (i.e. young children, the demented, the drug-addled.) 7. They just plain didn't hear the warning. Not everyone watches TV, listens to radio or checks CNN. 8. They wanted to "save their house" or had some other realistic/unrealistic goal for staying. 9. They thought the predictions were wrong. 10. They thought it would be cool to see; some people chase these storms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #5 September 5, 2005 QuoteThe ones that stayed, couldn't afford to leave. Some are just to stupid. I just saw on the news some people who still refuse to leave with the rescue workers. Even after being told there will be no food water, power, or nothing they still refused to leave until they were removed with a little bit of muscle.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #6 September 5, 2005 Fear of the unknown. How many of the people that stayed have never been out of their neighborhood? How many times have storms come and gone without destroying the city? You're not insured. Do you think it is easy to leave all your possessions to the friggin looters? I can understand it. The thugs doing the shooting are those that now "have something" and don't want to give it up. Three days ago they controlled much of the downtown it sounds like. Now they want to keep their neighborhoods, such as they are. Many others just want to survive; not everyone is doing the shooting. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NtheSeaOrSky 0 #7 September 5, 2005 Because you can not stop natural selection.Life is not fair and there are no guarantees... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #8 September 5, 2005 New News Story Here I just saw this news story on my MSN home page. Here we go. What kind of moron wouldn't want contractors to come in and repair their city? Doesn't make sense to me. This could be the onset of rioting, civil unrest, etc...Nature's way of "Thinning out the genepool?"-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #9 September 5, 2005 Quote How many times have storms come and gone without destroying the city? A farmer went to hook his plow to his mule to plow his field and found the mule dead. The famer said, "Well, he never did that before". My poin is that there are people that could have left, didn't because they didn't think it would be as bad as it is, and are now complaining that FEMA wasn't prepared for it being as bad as it is, i.e. making the same mistake they did. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #10 September 5, 2005 This is SC, right? Was I supposed to read your post before replying? I agree with your point. Just venting about mine also. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #11 September 5, 2005 Blame the victims.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #12 September 5, 2005 QuoteBlame the victims. You missed my point, again. I am not blaming the victims. My point is if you decide to stay, even in the face of a mandatory evacuation order, when you have the means to leave, don't complain if rescue/relief efforts aren't perfect. You knowingly took the chance, live with the results. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #13 September 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteBlame the victims. You missed my point, again. I am not blaming the victims. My point is if you decide to stay, even in the face of a mandatory evacuation order, when you have the means to leave, don't complain if rescue/relief efforts aren't perfect. You knowingly took the chance, live with the results. Derek Last year's FEMA simulation, "Hurricane Pam", came to the conclusion that around 100,000 would be unable to leave NOLA for various reasons. Don't assume that everyone who stayed behind, or even most of them, did so voluntarily.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #14 September 5, 2005 QuoteDon't assume that everyone who stayed behind, or even most of them, did so voluntarily. Where did I assume that everyone or most of the people that stayed behind could have left? You are reading things I didn't write. I specifically refered to those that have the means to leave and didn't. Seems to me I made that very clear. -"What of the ones that could have left and didn't"- yep, I did make that very clear. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NtheSeaOrSky 0 #15 September 5, 2005 kallend-I dont think he is blaming the victims. I think it was more pointing out how hypocritical people are sometimes. I board a plane after a thorough briefing from several sources on the winds aloft being excessive. I jump, track with the wind opening up WAY off the DZ. I land in some far off place(hey maybe I had a wingsuit...or my tracking was just that damn good) and I sit there in the woods/field etc. While I wait I pack my canopy, braid my hair, whatever. Four hours later the search party finds me and I chew them out for not getting there right after I landed. What makes me think I can chew them out for not coming to pick me up right away, when I did not make good decisions, or even try to help myself by getting to a road, house, etc. I apologize to hook if this is not what he meant, but this is my take on what he said.Life is not fair and there are no guarantees... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #16 September 5, 2005 QuoteI apologize to hook if this is not what he meant, but this is my take on what he said. Nope, you got it, spot on. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burbleflyer 0 #17 September 5, 2005 Quote Blame the victims. Some of them are not victims of anything but their own inaction on many levels. Typical liberal comment, everyone is a victim. Isnt anyone responsible for anything anymore? Taken further, FEMA is a victim as well. Here's my take: People are responsible for themselves. A guy sitting on his porch who gets hit on the head by a piece falling off an airplane is a victim. A person who fails to evacuate an impending disaster is not a victim, but a person who failed to take measures to protect himself. Anyone who sits at home and expects the .gov to protect them and save them in any case is up for a rude awakening as we have seen. People keep pointing fingers at this .gov agency and that politician looking for a someone to blame but the blame lies ultimately with individuals who failed to prepare for the worst. Living in a modern civilized society has benefits, as it should but those befinits do not and should not remove personal responsibilty for your own safety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #18 September 5, 2005 QuoteBlame the victims. Do you mean the ones you referred to as dirt? Edited to add the link. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #19 September 5, 2005 QuoteThe problem is that FEMA, among others (the white house, state and local governments) knew for some time that the levees would be breached in a cat 4/5 hurricane. I know this is going to sound simplistic, but it boils down to this: It had to happen for others to learn and remember for the future. The US did not learn from WTC I in 1993, it took 9/11 instead. I'm not comparing Katrina to 9/11, I'm drawing a parallel in terms of how we will perceive, plan, project and respond. It's a terrible way to learn sometimes -- baptism by fire -- but it is a sure fire way.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #20 September 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteDon't assume that everyone who stayed behind, or even most of them, did so voluntarily. Where did I assume that everyone or most of the people that stayed behind could have left? You are reading things I didn't write. I specifically refered to those that have the means to leave and didn't. Seems to me I made that very clear. -"What of the ones that could have left and didn't"- yep, I did make that very clear. Derek So what fraction of the total do you refer to? Why is it important as long as any people are stranded involuntarily?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #21 September 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteBlame the victims. Do you mean the ones you referred to as dirt? Edited to add the link. FallRate No, the filth from the flood and overflowing sewers is the dirt.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #22 September 5, 2005 Just in case you missed it...scroll up a bit. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #23 September 5, 2005 QuoteFrom the behavior I see on TV, it's already full of dirt. You actually believe you can squirm out of that statement? By "behavior", you meant that of dirt and filth? For someone who is so critical, you should be more honest. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #24 September 5, 2005 QuoteJust in case you missed it...scroll up a bit. FallRate What do you think of people who rape refugees and shoot at rescue workers? Do you think all 100,000 or so who were stranded are like this?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #25 September 5, 2005 QuoteSo what fraction of the total do you refer to? I didn't refer to a total. Did you actually read my posts? QuoteWhy is it important as long as any people are stranded involuntarily? It is an observation. Other people got my point. You still don't get it. I don't know how else to explain it so that you will understand. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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