Excecution of Iraq Chopper Shoot Down Survivor

[Skyrad 0]

So no comment on the link then? Missed it or just pretending these things don't happen?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[christelsabine 1]

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See, I don´t think they are so unrelated. Each army defends with wathever ways they have available. After 10 years of embargo, Iraq doesn´t have the means to defend properly against the U.S so they have to resort to those dirty tactics. Now, i understand that soldiers, marines are scared to death to aproach a body, but the fact is that the insurgent was wounded and unarmed just like the guy in the chopper.

He is where you little argument falls to shit.

Both were wounded....BUT

The guy in the Helicopter case was trying to SURENDER.

The guy shot by the Marine was still trying to FIGHT.

That makes the difference...And it is A BIG difference.

One was a wounded man trying to get aid, the other was a wounded man that was still a PRESENT THREAT.

Hahahaha, funny you, Ron. With those arguments you intend to make Botelline's stinking? Try again, that was too lousy.

The half dead Iraqi was a "present thread". It's just too sad to laugh but, I'd like to reply LMAO.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Ron 7]

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So no comment on the link then? Missed it or just pretending these things don't happen?

did not see it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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Hahahaha, funny you, Ron. With those arguments you intend to make Botelline's stinking? Try again, that was too lousy.

The half dead Iraqi was a "present thread". It's just too sad to laugh but, I'd like to reply LMAO.

Iraqi's have used IED to kill when they are wounded.

The only joke here is your hatred for the US and desire to make the US out to be evil at every opportunity.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jeiber 0]

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where the hell do you guys get your info?

Given the subject, you're probably not going to get many people posting their resumes.

Just accept the fact that their are things going on that you don't see...

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[jeiber 0]

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I think the only reason where it could be justified is if he was a threat to the people that shot him. If he was armed, OK. If not, I find it hard to believe that anyone that was unarmed and injured could be seen as a threat.

I couldn't agree with you more!

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[jeiber 0]

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You would do the same thing if Mexico and Canada ganged up against the U.S and killed your family.

Maybe, but I certainly wouldn't be crying 'foul' when people reacted to my techniques.

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He was considered as a hero by many posters here.

And that's their prerogative. Having been in the military myself, I can see where they're coming from though.

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regarding to the legal system, unfortunately it takes into account other things than just those regarding to the issue at hand, like troop morale, public relations, etc. One way and the other, so those trials could often be biased.

On determining innocence or guilt, this is incorrect. In determining severity of punishment, yes, you are correct, those things are certainly considered.

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[mnealtx 0]

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Just accept the fact that their are things going on that you don't see...

Jeff

Gee, you think that just maybe he knows a bit more than we do, since he's over there right now?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Skyrad 0]

I'm in England but that doesn't mean I know whats going on in other parts of my organisation or elsewhere in the country anymore than you do in the States.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

Well here is the link again Ron. What kind of justification do you have for this? Pretty hard to put your hands over you head when you're trying to keep your guts in your body. No effort is made here to take the injured man prisoner. This is a war crime. If it is justifiable then so is the execution of the injured American.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnealtx 0]

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I'm in England but that doesn't mean I know whats going on in other parts of my organisation or elsewhere in the country anymore than you do in the States.

Agreed - but that also means that you probably have a better idea of what's going on in your organization than someone reading a news release about it, wouldn't you say?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Skyrad 0]

LOL....I wish!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Ron 7]

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Well here is the link again Ron. What kind of justification do you have for this? Pretty hard to put your hands over you head when you're trying to keep your guts in your body. No effort is made here to take the injured man prisoner. This is a war crime. If it is justifiable then so is the execution of the injured American.

If that is the whole story...Which I doubt then it is unjustified.

This was covered on here several mths ago. Several reports had other issues that are not covered in your 10 second clip.

If that went down just as shown on that edited video...Which you must admit was edited to make the US look bad...Then they are quilty. And should be punished. However since the US has put a soldier in prison for shooting a wounded insurgent that was trapped in a burning car.....I tend to trust the US version of events over the insurgents version.

So, using your logic. Since the insurgents do it....are you saying the US is justifed as well.

I tend to think that a heavely publicized video that the parties involved in the video went to trial over it....Why do you not say anything about that?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Skyrad 0]

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I tend to think that a heavely publicized video that the parties involved in the video went to trial over it....Why do you not say anything about that?

I don't understand what you are asking, if you rephrase this I will give you an answer to the question.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Ron 7]

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I don't understand what you are asking, if you rephrase this I will give you an answer to the question

Do you know if the soldiers involved with this video went to trial? If so, do you know the outcome?

This was covered here before.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1091865#1091865

It started with a video alot like this one...Except it was proven to be BS.

This video might be the same.

Also I amswered this type of thing once before.

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1093670#1093670

***As for American GI's that break ROE, or kill for fun...I'd fry them just as fast as I'd drop an Iraqi with a SAM.

I also covered this quite a bit here

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1095201#1095201

As for the second video....Well there was some very clear edits there as well. And no, I don't feel the slightest bad about killing a guy that just seconds ago was trying to kill me, and my team. I would not condone just walking up to a guy that was just sitting there doing nothing, but I support the killing of a guy that just seconds ago was trying to end my life.

For the record I didn't get outraged by the Iraqi's killing Burg either. I understand it, I understand the nature of warfare...Maybe you don't.

You see you have two sides, and they are trying to kill each other. One side will kill you in your sleep, murder you family if they could, and will desecrate your body. The other side TRIES to use fair ROE. But that sometimes does not happen.

As for the second video....If a guy is trying to kill me, and he gets hit and drops his weapon....Unless it is SAFE to capture him (and you don't know if it was safe in this case. Many times you can use wonded to lure people out to a kill zone) and he might have intel we need. I'm gonna drop him.

When he fired on me, unless he surenders he is a threat. Guys have been wounded, and when you try to help them they blow you up with a grenade, or stab you. They fight dirty, and all you need to do is see them do that ONCE and you will not trust them.

As for the glee at the marines...Well after a fire fight there is so much damn adrenialan in them...I don't doubt they were glad the fight was over...Like when you landed after your first jump...where you excited? Was that easy to control? What you don't see in the video was how long the battle was, and how bad it was. Since he is wounded at the start of the video, you don't know what he was doing before...If he had just been aiming an RPG at the wall of troops and he was hit before he could fire...Well, if a guy just almost killed you, and you hit him, are you going to be able to stop firing as soon as he drops? I doubt it...

Can you see the other side? If a guy was trying to KILL you, and KILL your buddies. And you knew damn good and well that THEY show no mercy and if they could they would not only kill you, but DRAG your body through the street, BURN it, CUT it up, and HANG it up for people to throw rocks at....What would you do to the guy that was just trying to KILL you?

I'd kill him.

So, do you know anything about this second video, other than the 10 second clip?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Hahahaha, funny you, Ron. With those arguments you intend to make Botelline's stinking? Try again, that was too lousy.

The half dead Iraqi was a "present thread". It's just too sad to laugh but, I'd like to reply LMAO.

Iraqi's have used IED to kill when they are wounded.

The only joke here is your hatred for the US and desire to make the US out to be evil at every opportunity.

Ron, you often make very insightful and intelligent comments (even ones I disagree with), but your too-oft used "hatred for the US" line tends to blur that intelligence.

Just because someone disagrees with some policy or action of our country does not automatically means they hate the US. You seem to pull that line out alot and I personally think it does nothing to help your argument.

By theway, I think you correct in your assesment of this shooting and the shooting of the guy playing dead. It is quite easy to hide a bomb under your body.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Ron 7]

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Ron, you often make very insightful and intelligent comments (even ones I disagree with), but your too-oft used "hatred for the US" line tends to blur that intelligence

Find me one post where he says something good about the US military. Find me one post where he says something good about US politics.

ONE.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Ron, you often make very insightful and intelligent comments (even ones I disagree with), but your too-oft used "hatred for the US" line tends to blur that intelligence

Find me one post where he says something good about the US military. Find me one post where he says something good about US politics.

ONE.

That was not the point. Just because I do not like a country's goverment or military does not mean I hate the entire country.

And even if he does, using that statement OVER AND OVER again with multiple posters here does not make you look like the winner.

You do a good job of presenting logical points for the most part, but to cap those statements off with a "you obviously hate america" line erases the intelligent points you said and makes you sound like one of those "anyone who ever says anything bad about America obviously hates everything about us and is stupid" people who refuses to listen to anyone who disagrees with them.

Broken records do not help anyone in a debate in my opinion. If someone hates America and their posts reflect it, there is no reason to continuously point it out. It will be apparent in their own words.

Its the same as when someone disagrees with a extremist liberal and that liberal resorts to calling the person a facist or capitalist pig or whatever. They could have said the most PROFOUND thing ever but by resorting to emotional name calling, they lose my vote.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Skyrad 0]

No I don't know about the rest of the clip or the subsequent legal repercussions. You are correct it is possible that this may have been edited with bias. I think we are generally in agreement on this, having read your comments.

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They fight dirty, and all you need to do is see them do that ONCE and you will not trust them.

This cuts both ways, all it takes is for a US Solider to off someone outside the ROE for the Iraqis to feel justified to do the same.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jeiber 0]

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Gee, you think that just maybe he knows a bit more than we do, since he's over there right now?

Of course, how stupid of me....

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!