sabr190 0 #26 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo I don't have to pay for his/her damn living in prison for 40 years. Forget the chair, and lethal injection too.... too expensive! I say use a $0.38 bullet to the head....done! Ahh yes another informed response. __________________________________________________ This is not a slam, so don't take it that way. I see from your profile that you are from Canada, So here is an idea. You petition your government to take all of our death row inmates, you support, house, feed them. I'm sure the only people from the USA that will reject that idea will be the family of the victims. Of course, they will probably set up camp outside your prisons to protest how unjust that arrangement is. Then your government can explain to those family members how what you are doing is the right thing. "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre2th 0 #27 December 10, 2004 Yeah, I've been known to be a little drastic. But seriously, yes, i think there should be a system that protects the rights of the accused. But I also support the death penalty for the convicted. I agree with the comment on removing the criminal from the public permanently. I just think it is a waste of everyone's money if they stay in prison for life anyway. Eye for an Eye sounds good to me. Sorry if I sounded a little harsh earlier Nick. Those who dance, are cosidered insane by those who can't hear the music. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #28 December 10, 2004 Quotewill you answer my question? Sure QuoteSo I don't have to pay for his/her damn living in prison for 40 years. Forget the chair, and lethal injection too.... too expensive! I say use a $0.38 bullet to the head....done! Informed...Yes. It costs more than most Americans make to keep a guy in prison each year. For example the ones listed on the website were killers. They killed for money, and one claimed she had orgasims doing it. These people took lives. Now I believe in the justice system. One of the people on that page asked for and was given a DNA test...And it proved he was the killer. A killer that kidnapped, raped, and killed a 90 year old woman. He was caught within minutes of the crime covered in blood. Do I think that person deserves to live? NO. His victum deserved to live. Now how he wrote it was not COMPASSIONATE, or POLITICALLY CORRECT. But I think it was informed."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre2th 0 #29 December 10, 2004 QuotePOLITICALLY CORRECT I HATE that phrase......Thank you thoughSomeone have the numbers on what it costs per day for one death row inmate? I have seen it posted before I think. Nick. Those who dance, are cosidered insane by those who can't hear the music. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #30 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteOH no!!! Criminals that killed people being sentanced to death and actually executed according to the law!!!!!! The horror!!!! The Real horror is all the people that don't know how to make clickys Let's see, the neo-con execution lovers critique me about: 1. Posting a site and making it so they have to a. open another browser b. cut-n-paste the website onto the new addy block c. hit, "enter" 2. Saying that I thought it was about 100 years ago when the US last killed one of its own for refusing to kill the enemy after a draft, when it was 60 years. Irony is that their own neo-con buddy stated it was 50 years and was wrong, but there was no mention of that. I've figured it out; these neo-cons spend a lot of time watching The Price is Right, and they don't like people going over the estimate, even if they're wrong, be wrong in a mitigated fashion, hence conservative. Hey neo-cons, it sure beats addressing the substantive issues, huh? I've written all along - the neo-con agenda is indefensable, so they divert to other irrelevant issues. Thanks for not letting me down, American neo-con. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #31 December 10, 2004 Quote WOW, I want my 30 seconds back! That looked like a elementary-school child's report. If you're going to push your opinion at least use some real facts instead of a made up word flashed over and over. WOW, I want my 30 seconds back! Hey, I was catering to my audience - neo-cons. Yet another misdirection. Can't you guys address the truth to the 155 Texecutions they claim to have transpired w/o investigation? There's plemty of valid stuff in there. All you guys do is to continue to re-validate my position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #32 December 10, 2004 Okay, call me stupid, but what is a neo-con?? "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #33 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteOH no!!! Criminals that killed people being sentanced to death and actually executed according to the law!!!!!! The horror!!!! None of the cases being investigated, which rolls the jurisdiction back to the county; do we want counties executing people? However, counties are responsible for carrying out the state's criminal prosecutions. Would it make sense to try all Texas criminal cases in Austin? Fuck no. Let the counties do it. That's their job, and why the "District Attorney" prosecutes instead of the State Attorney (with certain exceptions). There are some interesting things in there, like the defiinition of "Texecution" identifying it as an "execution without reprieve." Um, most deaths meet that criteria. Um, counties do not execute. tHe state executes. I know, wasn't it clear that I was saying when the state rubber stamps it that the jurisdiction for the execution essentially rolls back to the county? Sure it was. I realize you don't want to admit that, but when, let's say Bush ignores the entire death warrant but the signature block, that means execution presented by the county to the governor will not be scrutinized, hence a fair investigation/trial is not neccessary. I wrote: "None of the cases being investigated, which rolls the jurisdiction back to the county; do we want counties executing people?" Is that not clear? I love propoganda like that. I think parts of it could be sensational enough to call propaganda, especially since they sarcastically call our commander in chimp, "The Texecutioner." But there is a lot of fact in there too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,135 #34 December 10, 2004 QuoteInformed...Yes. It costs more than most Americans make to keep a guy in prison each year. To me an informed response would take into account that it costs even more to maintain the death penalty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #35 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteOH no!!! Criminals that killed people being sentanced to death and actually executed according to the law!!!!!! The horror!!!! None of the cases being investigated, which rolls the jurisdiction back to the county; do we want counties executing people? __________________________________________________ "Garza, 44, was convicted of murdering a man by shooting him five times in the head and neck and ordering the deaths of two other men. It was all part of Garza's marijuana smuggling operation, which federal prosecutors say he ran ruthlessly." I'm not so sure I care who puts em down, county, state, federal, as long as it gets done. Right, and that's not the argument. I would have to read more about that case and ensure that he was the one, etc, etc.... The anti-cap pun argument isn't here to protect the lives of scum, even though most are, they are here to protect that one or two guys that get caught in the crack. Actually it's probably more than 1 or 2, but it is a slim minority. It seems most pro-cap pun folks rant about the Constitution this, Constitutin that, well the US Constitution is here to protect the rights of the individual over the rights of the whole, a concept that refutes Utilitarianism, yet pro-cap pun guys look past that , or aren't intellectual enough to understand it (most likely). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #36 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not so sure I care who puts em down, county, state, federal, as long as it gets done. Exactly, nothing like a good killing to make me feel good. __________________________________________________ At least you said "killing" instead of "murder". And, since it is an execution of a convicted murderer and drug dealer, I don't care who does it. Does it make me feel good? No. Does it serve a purpose? Yes. And that purpose is..... 1. Pave the way for innocent people to be executed 2. Cost 2 to 3 times more, or more tna life w/o parole 3. Establish an atmosphere of killing for our kids to see Incapacitation can be accomplished via life w/o parole, so can you please tell me what good it does? Saying that the person can get out doesn't support your claim, as prisoners don't get out unless they prove themselves innocent from behind bars, and then we want them out, right? Oh, they can escape. That's an indictment of the penal system, not the justice system. To say that we should kill them so they don't escape is like saying we should chain our kids at home so they don't sneak out at night. Again, other than simple rhetoric, cap pun is indefensable.... there are attorneys on the board, I would love to hear arguments Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre2th 0 #37 December 10, 2004 I want to see the figures of what it costs per year for an inmate vs. the cost of execution. I don't know, so thats why I am asking. I have seen the figures before on here somewhere, with a valid link, but don't remember the exact numbers. I could have sworn it was more to imprison them. Please "Inform me" Excuse my spelling please Nick. Those who dance, are cosidered insane by those who can't hear the music. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #38 December 10, 2004 QuoteYou know, I can't help but keep digging into this site. What interesting reads. QuoteSentenced to Death for being Hispanic in Texas ! Jessy Carlos San Miguel - Texecuted June 29, 2000 Then we dig deeper and find, "Jessy Carlos San Miguel is scheduled to be put to death on June 29, 2000 for his role in the 1991 robbery of a Taco Bell restaurant in Irving, Texas in which four people were killed." Only four? Dang. They mention Karla Faye Tucker, whose conversion to Christianity - and cuteness - was argued, rather than her having orgasms at pickaxing people to death. Juan Raul Garza - only murdered three drug dealers to maintain his status as kingpin. Domingo Cantu "Executed October 28, 1999. Domingo was a Native from the White Mountain Apache tribe, and an artist. He had been on Death Row in Texas for over a decade pleading for help for a simple DNA test which was refused by Texas courts, until recently. " Well, you find out the DNA test was one to show the blood on him was not the victim's. DNA test proved it was. Supporters funded this request. All he did was grab his 94 year-old victim "in the front yard of her home and dragged her across her patio into the back yard, then hauled the 97-pound woman over a 4-foot-high chain-link fence, beat, raped and sodomized her." Autopsy found 8 broken ribs and death by head wounds after her head was repeatedly slammed into the concrete. He was found minutes after the murder by police who found him running and covered with blood and feces. Oh, yeah, he admitted to assaulting a woman at a bus stop hours before and taking her purse. He tried to run from the ourtroom during trial. He also stabbed another inmate in the throat later on. It's so interesting to see these condemned murderers seeking to make themselves martyrs against an "unjust" system. It's sad that assholes like Cantu make it so much tougher for those who ARE innocent to be believed. Right, Utilitarian. That is why the pro-cap pun folks like execution; Utilitarianism. Then you find that Utilitarianism was the foundation for Communism by Stalin, you learn that controlling means of production is at the cornerstone of Communism, and that Fascism (indivisible marriage between corporation and government) has taken ahold of the US since about 1980 and you understand that the US used to reject these ideologies but now embraces major parts of them and you just want to get away. Democracy means little in regard to freedom, as Hitler was elected. Execution is a reaction to what the major system has to offer, it's a byproduct of the larger problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #39 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteDoes it serve a purpose? Yes. Really? What purpose? __________________________________________________ It takes predators off the street........permanently. And so does incarrcration w/o parole - how does killing them make them more removed than living in a box forever? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,135 #40 December 10, 2004 QuoteI want to see the figures of what it costs per year for an inmate vs. the cost of execution. I don't know, so thats why I am asking. I have seen the figures before on here somewhere, with a valid link, but don't remember the exact numbers. I could have sworn it was more to imprison them. Please "Inform me" I am sure you can find the studies if you really want to learn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #41 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt takes predators off the street........permanently. So does life in prison. So if that is the only purpose it serves, there is really no reason to keep it around. __________________________________________________ True, but does that punishment fit the crime? I don't think so. What you don't seem to understand is someone lost their life to these people, did they get a choice to finish out their lives? So, my personal opinion is that the person who took their life does not deserve to finish out the rest of their life. This looks at the beneficial side of executing truely heinous people, but ignores what happens when inncoent people get executed. Wait, it doesn't ignore it, it runs like hell from the issue, just like posters in here! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #42 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteReally? What purpose? So I don't have to pay for his/her damn living in prison for 40 years. Forget the chair, and lethal injection too.... too expensive! I say use a $0.38 bullet to the head....done! And what would you say to Ray Krone's family, who supported him well, if you're abreviated, 'kill em now' mentality didn;t allow the 10 years for him to prove himself innocent? http://www.ccadp.org/raykrone.htm "Krone was a proponent of the death penalty before he was sent to prison. He thinks differently now after having lost ten years of his life and sentenced to death as an innocent person, while the guilty perpetrator was at the loose during that decade, free to prey on more victims." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre2th 0 #43 December 10, 2004 I would if my work computer would let me use search engines....thats why I was asking. I could of course search the entire Internet site by site...I'll see you guys in a little bitBtw, I am really suprised that they will let me on DZ.com but won't let me to virtually any other site that has a search function Nick. Those who dance, are cosidered insane by those who can't hear the music. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #44 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteAhh yes another informed response Why is it you think you know more than everyone else? Because we are making cogent arguments rather than simple one-liners. Honestly, tak all the arguments we've posted and post answers - that's what I want. If you did, you would have to state that it's a great thing to kill kids when they are convicted of crimes, mistakes happen, but oh well, and the deterrence value of cap pun is a facade when cap pun itself is guilty of killing innocent people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #45 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteI don't, plus I know I don't know more than everyone else? Interesting reply though, did you think it was a very informed response? You seem to act like you look down on everyone elses responses. You brush them off by trying to belittle them, so it seemed like a good question to ask since only you can answer it. You seem to act like you look down on everyone elses responses. You brush them off by trying to belittle them, so it seemed like a good question to ask since only you can answer it. Ron, if any of us come off smarter than thou, sorry, just answer the points. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #46 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo I don't have to pay for his/her damn living in prison for 40 years. Forget the chair, and lethal injection too.... too expensive! I say use a $0.38 bullet to the head....done! Ahh yes another informed response. See this, and tell me there is a better solution.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #47 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteI pay taxes....taxes pay for prison...no? I am always up to learn something new, so correct me if I am wrong. Well, since taxes seems to be the only thing you are concerned about in this matter, it would be easiest to just kill everybody except yourself, that way there would be no need for taxes. In a less simplified world, it would be more beneficial to put them in jail for life, since that would actually cost you less tax money? If you think that they should be executed within the hour of their first conviciton, then I would question your thoughts on an effective and just system. Great point, like Steve Martin says, "Death penalty for parking violations." That is a good retort to cap pun proponents; kill all prisoners, hence less expense. Before people poo-poo that, do understand that prison used to a public process that was used for holding people until their execution. Per Professor Cavendar, ASU Justice Studies, there were 300 crimes that were punishable by death, including complaining about the price of corn. Now this was 100's of years ago, but jail was just a way to secure people until they awaited their execution. We used to kill people once we decided they were no longer useful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #48 December 10, 2004 QuoteLet's see, the neo-con execution lovers critique me about: 1. Posting a site and making it so they have to a. open another browser b. cut-n-paste the website onto the new addy block c. hit, "enter" 2. Saying that I thought it was about 100 years ago when the US last killed one of its own for refusing to kill the enemy after a draft, when it was 60 years. Irony is that their own neo-con buddy stated it was 50 years and was wrong, but there was no mention of that. I've figured it out; these neo-cons spend a lot of time watching The Price is Right, and they don't like people going over the estimate, even if they're wrong, be wrong in a mitigated fashion, hence conservative. Hey neo-cons, it sure beats addressing the substantive issues, huh? I've written all along - the neo-con agenda is indefensable, so they divert to other irrelevant issues. Thanks for not letting me down, American neo-con. You mean like when you totaly discounted something from a former President that proved you wrong based on the fact you just didn't like it?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #49 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo I don't have to pay for his/her damn living in prison for 40 years. Forget the chair, and lethal injection too.... too expensive! I say use a $0.38 bullet to the head....done! Ahh yes another informed response. __________________________________________________ This is not a slam, so don't take it that way. I see from your profile that you are from Canada, So here is an idea. You petition your government to take all of our death row inmates, you support, house, feed them. I'm sure the only people from the USA that will reject that idea will be the family of the victims. Of course, they will probably set up camp outside your prisons to protest how unjust that arrangement is. Then your government can explain to those family members how what you are doing is the right thing. It's not a slam, but it fails to address whether the US should or should not execute. Please, answer the tough questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #50 December 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt takes predators off the street........permanently. So does life in prison. So if that is the only purpose it serves, there is really no reason to keep it around. __________________________________________________ True, but does that punishment fit the crime? I don't think so. What you don't seem to understand is someone lost their life to these people, did they get a choice to finish out their lives? So, my personal opinion is that the person who took their life does not deserve to finish out the rest of their life. This looks at the beneficial side of executing truely heinous people, but ignores what happens when inncoent people get executed. Wait, it doesn't ignore it, it runs like hell from the issue, just like posters in here! __________________________________________________ I'm not running from the issue. And, I will go as far to say I agree with you on the flawed nature of our criminal justice system. Do I have the magic answer to fix it? No. "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
