Gun Facts 4.0

[AggieDave 6]

Presumptious? Hell, you your self said the average individual couldn't make a gun, zip guns and their history PROVE the average individual can and will make gun. Thus telling me you have never heard of them prior to my posting. Maybe you had or maybe you googled it after I commented about it, but I'm just taking information from what you're saying.



let me just nip down to the shop for my groceries and a quart of gunpowder. ***

Gunpowder is easy as hell to buy, even if you don't have gunpowder there are other ways to send a projectile out a muzzle at over 600fps.

Who says you need shells? Firearms have been around since the 14th century, its only in the past 200 years that cartriges have been invented and perfected.

My point is, its easy to do, easy to make and any idiot can do it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[beowulf 1]

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hmm, I am not sure why its a hard link to see....

Lets say I wanted to break the law right now... I would have no idea where to get a gun. Absolutely no one I know would likely be able to help me (and I know some fairly unsavoury characters)

If my brother or friend had a gun in his bedroom drawer - TADA... not so tough anymore?

If every household had a gun here - I think it goes without saying that access to guns is ALOT easier.

It might make it alot easier but less likely since you are also more likely to be facing someone else with a gun legally protecting themselves. That is why the crime has gone down in the states that have gun carry license laws. Criminals don't want to die. They would rather not have to worry about the victim shooting them.

[Paulipod 0]

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Gunpowder is easy as hell to buy

Well I am buggered if I know where I could buy some. But then again I dont live in the US

When you have the key materials readily on hand I have no doubt creating something crude is straight forward.

I would wager that I could ask anyone in the street here to create me a weapon capable of bullet speed and they would neither have the resources or knowledge to do so safely.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[beowulf 1]

You just haven't tried to obtain an illegal gun. I am sure if you tried hard enough you would find that it isn't as hard as you think.

[AggieDave 6]

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I would wager that I could ask anyone in the street here to create me a weapon capable of bullet speed and they would neither have the resources or knowledge to do so safely.

Oh, ok, so that's why there's a problem in the UK right now of people converting replica firearms into simple but real firearms? The last report I read said it only cost about 50pounds and there are a lot of back alley shops that'll do it in under 2 hours!

So you're absolutely right, its a non-problem in England and since guns are banned, the criminals aren't smart enough to go around the ban and make firearms.

You're not right in your opinion, you're just 100% blind to the facts.



Here's one link I found via Google just to give some sort of source to cite, since I'm too lazy to link all the other reports I've read, seen and heard.

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/summaries/reader/0%2C2061%2C567614%2C00.html

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Paulipod 0]

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you're just 100% blind to the facts.

Thats you opinion - and I would argue that I have a slightly better view of life in the UK. Certainly than you reading a couple of reports on the web will give you.

I dont deny that there are people that can make weapons / convert weapons - If someone can do it in a factory then someone can do it at home.

Like i said though - for most people the resources and knowledge are not present.

There is a world of difference between modification of a manufactured item and creating something that doesnt blow your hand off.

Using shells makes it easier I am sure - but again if you can obtain ammo you can probably get a gun so whats the point.

My point wasnt that criminals cant and dont get guns. I am simply saying opening hundreds of gun shops will make it a damn sight easier for people to get guns when they want one to use illegally.

I dont think I have ever said that guns are not a problem in the UK - of course they are.... 80 or even 1 death is too many. More guns = more deaths and if you cant see the relationship I think it is you that need the optician.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[AggieDave 6]

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More guns = more deaths and if you cant see the relationship I think it is you that need the optician.

Did you not read what I linked for you?

Those things killing other people aren't guns, they've been converted into guns.

So if you think that more guns simply equals more deaths, then you have a seriously skewed outlook.

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I am simply saying opening hundreds of gun shops will make it a damn sight easier for people to get guns when they want one to use illegally.

If you think its that easy to buy a weapon in the US from a legal shop if you're a criminal, you've been watching too much TV. The only reason why its easy for me is because I have a CHL and present it at time of purchase. To get that I had to go through a class and go through a local AND federal background check by the FBI. I couldn't have anything outstanding on my record and could only have as bad of offence as basically a paid speeding ticket.

But you're right, since I can walk into a gun shop, plop down $968.98 (that's what my last handgun cost) I'm going to start killing people. I wouldn't much rather buy a similar weapon illegally for $100 without the background check, without the paperwork and forms I had to fill out, with out any of the hassel.



But, meh, like you said its your country man, have fun with the socialists...er, the labor party and I'm going to be on this side of the pond at the range, shooting and having fun.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[beowulf 1]

It seems that you think that easy availibilty of a gun would make someone more likely to use the gun illegally. That does not make any sense to me. If some one did not have a gun they are just going to make do with a knife or any other weapon, especially if they are certain that their victim is unarmed.

[kallend 1,659]

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Presumptious? Hell, you your self said the average individual couldn't make a gun, zip guns and their history PROVE the average individual can and will make gun. .

History proves that they can, but not that an average individual will make a gun.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[beowulf 1]

Those above average would sell them to everyone else.

[AggieDave 6]

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History proves that they can, but not that an average individual will make a gun.

We're talking about criminals in general, not the population at large.

And if you say they won't make them, then you really need to go to that big library on campus and read up on American history...especially the early to mid 20th century in urban areas.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Paulipod 0]

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But you're right, since I can walk into a gun shop, plop down $968.98 (that's what my last handgun cost) I'm going to start killing people. I wouldn't much rather buy a similar weapon illegally for $100 without the background check, without the paperwork and forms I had to fill out, with out any of the hassel

You make some staggering leaps and assumptions as to what I say!

I didnt say that a criminal would walk into a shop necessarily. More likely just steal yours or someone elses at an opportune moment.

I did read the link you posted. Did you? I suggest you look again. It talks of gun conversion first and then of the total GUN deaths not the total converted gun deaths. But thats just nitpicking.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[Paulipod 0]

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It seems that you think that easy availibilty of a gun would make someone more likely to use the gun illegally. That does not make any sense to me. If some one did not have a gun they are just going to make do with a knife or any other weapon, especially if they are certain that their victim is unarmed.

I think that there are alot of people that if commiting a crime will use the best resources available to them. If they can easily get a gun why use a knife?

I am not suggesting the existance of guns makes people into criminals...

How on earth can you think that the size of gun crime in the US is not linked to number of guns? I find this staggering.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[AggieDave 6]

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It talks of gun conversion first and then of the total GUN deaths not the total converted gun deaths. But thats just nitpicking.

Yeah, I know, not quite a perfect link, but I was moving quick and googling fast.

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You make some staggering leaps and assumptions as to what I say!

Naw, since your stance is obvious and you've stated your opinion in multipul ways, its easy to see the conclusions...simply disagree and prove your point and that doesn't happen.

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More likely just steal yours or someone elses at an opportune moment.

Having a gun stolen is like beating a child, shouldn't happen and only idiots are involved (not including the child).

As a rule of thumb, someone is going to have to kill me to steal one of my handguns...since I'll be shooting at them in the first place. When I'm not around or they're not on my person, they are locked away. A secret hidden place, fireproof, hard as hell to pick and hard as hell to find.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

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How on earth can you think that the size of gun crime in the US is not linked to number of guns?

The drop in the crime rate has been linked directly to guns actually. Look at TX, the facts are there (I'm not going to link, since its stated and cited in the previous document posted at the beginning of the thread).

Violent crime rate dropped 50% faster then the national average when the right to carry law was put on the books. 50% faster! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. I'd ask one, but Wendy hasn't been in this thread.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Paulipod 0]

Dya sleep with one eye open too?

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[Jimbo 0]

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I think it is unquestionable that lifting a ban here would see large increases in gun deaths.

How was the UK's gun-crime rate before the ban?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[AggieDave 6]

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Dya sleep with one eye open too?

Oh, well, apparently I'll have to if I ever hear about you visiting Texas, huh?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Paulipod 0]

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The drop in the crime rate has been linked directly to guns actually. Look at TX, the facts are there (I'm not going to link, since its stated and cited in the previous document posted at the beginning of the thread).

Violent crime rate dropped 50% faster then the national average when the right to carry law was put on the books. 50% faster! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. I'd ask one, but Wendy hasn't been in this thread.

I can believe that too! but thats beside the point....

In the situation where guns are rife - I agree it makes no sense to ban - and to arm the innocent probably works... and helps the figures.

That in no way correlates to a situation where the number of guns is so low.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[Paulipod 0]

No idea...

but its never been really easy to get a gun.... even when you could I think there were applications / waiting / police checks etc etc

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[AggieDave 6]

This is what we call arguing in a circle...in this reply I comment on the illegal gun use and conversion of replicas in the UK to dispute your comments on gun numbers, then you comment back and thus forth. We can continue repeating the same stuff to each other for a good number of hours (I've seen it happen to other folks here on DZ.com before).

Since I'm fix'n to go meet up with the local biker night at Sonic, how about we understand we both have opposing view points and both feel that our opinions are valid...so its a verbal draw.

(get it, a "draw").

Have a good early morning over there.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Paulipod 0]

lol... thank god for that!

Given its way past my bedtime

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[kallend 1,659]

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History proves that they can, but not that an average individual will make a gun.

We're talking about criminals in general, not the population at large.

And if you say they won't make them, then you really need to go to that big library on campus and read up on American history...especially the early to mid 20th century in urban areas.

A majority of average individuals are women and children. I'll bet that very few of them made their own guns, even in urban areas.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[beowulf 1]

That is a silly statement.
It seems as though you are just arguing just to argue.

[Kennedy 0]

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for crimes of passion the use of a gun makes it -much- easier and therefore more likely.

Then why are more deaths in "crimes of passion" by blunt force trama than guns?

People not familiar with guns often think it is easy to have one at hand all the time. People who never considered carrying have no idea what a pain in the ass they can be sometimes.

Oh, and quade, Ron is right. It's just as easy to pick something up and bludgeon a person to death. And there's always something heavy at hand.

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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