Should Britan be armed?

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I liked it when I was over there knowing that if anyone was to try to rob me, it would most likely be at knife point instead of gun point.

Why on earth do you find it at all preferable to be stabbed to death with a knife rather than shot to death with a gun??

Or are you claiming that you'd rather be attacked with a knife because you feel you're badass enough to go bare-handed against a guy with a knife? Like your triumph is assured, if "all he has is a knife"?

Or are you misinformed enough to believe that knife wounds are not statistically more lethal than gunshot wounds?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[bigway 4]

no comment, if you think you need a gun go and get one.
Sorry i am just not really interested in getting in another big argument so please pretend i never posted here













....thanks

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Staring down the double barrels of a twelve gauge would encourage a career change mighty quick.

It does me no comfort or reassurance to think that there are some people out there who choose not to be violent criminals simply because they are dissuaded out of it by the prospect of being killed by a homeowner. Like, they're sitting there going, "Y'know, I have no other problem with robbing and maybe killing people except for the danger to me that exists in such a pursuit, so I think I'll go legit."

Seems to me that they are just always on the precipice of doing honest people harm, if that's the tenuouis way in which they come to be on the right side of the law.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[bigway 4]

one thing jeffery, if you are in the states how do you have any clue what it is like here in Britian?
It is quite a safe place here because their are no guns and i am curious as to how you can argue that britan should have guns when you are in the states. Do you know it is like to live here? It is different from the states. Most villages only have around 2000 people in them.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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As I've posted before; we continue to enjoy that right. The use of lethal force is ultimate – it is far from a trivial matter and should only be available under the absolute extremes of circumstances. The law reflects this. You just voted for the laws we currently have in this country.

But what about the part where you're outside of your own home?

Your laws prohibit the carrying of ANY ITEM THAT COULD BE USED FOR SELF DEFENSE. Not only can't you carry your shotgun to defend yourself, you can't even have a KUBOTAN, much less, say, a knife like a Spyderco Military or something.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Another thought also, give the shop owner a gun in that scenario which he uses and he will do time...

WAIT A MINUTE.

mr2mk1 said that it is LEGAL to use lethal force to meet a lethal threat when the threat to life is credible.

You two contradict each other.

He says so right here

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Anyone who thinks a criminal might actually think that needs their head examined.

Maybe, but I can justify my opinion....several innocent children have been slaughtered recently over here due to the increase in availability of guns. I would like to see this stopped, but then I obviously need my head examined

Obviously. You realize you just spoke of "the increase in availability of guns" even as we are observant of the fact that the guns are OUTRIGHT BANNED in the U.K.??

The point is, the ban isn't keeping guns from the criminals, so why keep the honest people disarmed??


-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I would also prefer that things like the Dumblane massacre, or Columbine can't happen, I realise of course this isn't possible, but I don't see any reason to facilitate it.

Some people have a problem with locking down their right to have guns for their own protection, in your attempt to keep from "facilitating" Dunblane-type massacres.

My guns won't be used for a massacre, so they're not a threat to society at large. Telling me that I have to give up my right to protect myself so that society can enjoy the illusion that it has been made safer is just crap.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Telling me that I have to give up my right to protect myself

Nope. You're in America. We're not telling you to do anything. This is about British laws.

No one's taking away anyone's right to protect themselves. We still have the right to protect ourselves in the UK although we've never had the right to protect ourselves with the use of a firearm.

See, we've never had the right to own a firearm, only a privilage. Therefore we've never had the right to use that gun for self defense - only a privilage.

No one has lost any rights.

None of us are telling you that you must; the laws of your country have nothing to do with us. Why do you suppose you have something to do with ours?

[bigway 4]

evryone in britan loves a good punch up for good measure, guns are not needed nor wanted.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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one thing jeffery, if you are in the states how do you have any clue what it is like here in Britian?
It is quite a safe place here because their are no guns and i am curious as to how you can argue that britan should have guns when you are in the states. Do you know it is like to live here? It is different from the states. Most villages only have around 2000 people in them.

Do you realize the ludicrous nature of coming here and claiming that Britain is a safe place "because their (sic) are no guns"???!!

There are no guns??!

End of discussion. You would need to be more attuned to the REALITY of the situation to make discussing this worthwhile. A statement like "there are no guns" in Britain is just preposterous on its face, and merits no further comment.

(To say nothing of "most villages only have around 2000 people in them"... Has England got no cities? How do you have nothing but villages with 2000 people in them, yet have a population of 60,000,000? 30,000 such villages, I suppose?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Telling me that I have to give up my right to protect myself

Nope. You're in America. We're not telling you to do anything. This is about British laws.

No one's taking away anyone's right to protect themselves. We still have the right to protect ourselves in the UK although we've never had the right to protect ourselves with the use of a firearm.

See, we've never had the right to own a firearm, only a privilage. Therefore we've never had the right to use that gun for self defense - only a privilage.

No one has lost any rights.

None of us are telling you that you must; your countrys laws have nothing to do with us. Why do you suppose you have something to do with ours?

Do you not understand that I'm talking in the figurative sense that "ONE" must give up his right to defense with a gun? Of course I'm not saying that your country's decisions force me, over here in the U.S., to give up my guns -- although there ARE people in your country trying to export your gun control insanity, in the argument that contravenes your old saw about what laws are good for one culture are not necessarily good for a different one.

And for what it's worth, if I were in a position of having to harp on how I never did have a "right" to this or that, I'd do so with painful self-consciousness and a lot of humiliation, rather like having to talk about having had to give oneself an enema prior to a medical procedure. Not something I'd care to talk so frankly about.

But you seem nonchalant as you freely talk -- as though there's no shame in it -- of lacking rights, as subjects of a government.

I just can't get with that.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[bigway 4]

Jeffrey, Britan does not need guns leagailsed.
This is not America and does not have an obssesion with guns.
Maybe you should bring some experience of living in Britian before you sit here telling us we need Guns.
We do not need guns.
There are guns in this country but this not america. There are cctv cvameras every where in every city and town in the united kingdom. This has the feel of a very safe country, we are not in america so do not tell us your american bullshit gun obbsesion reality will be needed in this Country.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[mr2mk1g 10]

Jeffrey, you chose to pass comment on a lot of posts in this thread. I wonder why you chose to ignore this one: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1310641#1310641

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Jeffrey, Britan does not need guns leagailsed.
This is not America and does not have an obssesion with guns.
Maybe you should bring some experience of living in Britian before you sit here telling us we need Guns.
We do not need guns.
There are guns in this country but this not america. There are cctv cvameras every where in every city and town in the united kingdom. This has the feel of a very safe country, we are not in america so do not tell us your american bullshit gun obbsesion reality will be needed in this Country.

Cameras will make you safe. Fear not.


When some nut in an alley accosts you with a knife, or three of his friends, those cameras will surely sweep in and hustle you off to safety while holding your would-be assailants under arrest.

Didn't George Orwell warn AGAINST a state having the power to observe its people at all times?

You people seem to have taken 1984 and used it as a guidebook for what to DO, not what NOT to do...

And the rest of us look on in sick horror at what is evolving over there...

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Jeffrey, you chose to pass comment on a lot of posts in this thread. I wonder why you chose to ignore this one: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1310641#1310641

Because I don't give it much credence at all.

Raw numbers, even IF true (and I'm skeptical), are meaningless when we observe your country's crime trends.

In the meanwhile, I've read repeatedly -- repeatedly on the very BBC website, over the last few years as Britain's gun- and violent-crime rates have increased in double digit percentages.

One of us is full of shit here, it would seem.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[mr2mk1g 10]

Do you desire the right to molest children? Why not - it would be another right to add to your collection...

I don't want the right to carry guns in the street and to shoot people simply because they want to take my wallet.

I'm sorry if that offends you. The simple fact is that I couldn't care less if I have that right or not; just like I couldn't care less if I've got the right to molest children.

Rights aren't worth a great deal if no one wants them or wants to use them. They are not the be all and end all.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Raw numbers, even IF true (and I'm skeptical),

They're from our respective countries official statistical offices. I see no reason to dispute them - they are as reputable as they come.

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are meaningless when we observe your country's crime trends

Fine - gun deaths in this country are DOWN by 15% (British Crime Survey 2003/2004)

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One of us is full of shit here, it would seem.

That's my point.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Do you desire the right to molest children? Why not - it would be another right to add to your collection...

That's just asinine. There is no other way to describe this argumentative tack.

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Rights...are not the be all and end all.

That may be why your countrymen are not really guaranteed any. Your attitude toward them is indifferent. Free people don't think that way, or feel that way. And we're sickened when others do.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[bigway 4]

you see that rarely happens because everyone is well aware that these cameras are here and they are being monitored b
y the police cctv response crew. Yes this makes me safe and i feel safe.
Do not preach what you are not familiar with.
I feel safe in england, i use to live across from the baras in glasgow scotland. I lived on london road right across the road from them, the red light district of glasgow. I walked out at night all the time, never felt like i needed a gun.
You live somewhere like there And you will understand. This is a very rough place and has a huge reputation. Maybe you are incapable of defending yourself and need a gun. Do not tell england what they do and dont need....look how fucked up the states are.
You are trying to say what is needed in this country. there are hardly any countries in this world where you can walk around with a gun, this is a good thing. This why many countries are alot safer than america. Our children do not shhot themselves by accident nor do we show off our guns.
America, is the country in this world that is trying to make the world a peaceful place while destroying it.
Worry about your own country.




Go clean your guns and feel safe.
peace,
never coming in speakers corner again.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[gordy 0]

Peaceful Jefferey

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mr2mk1 said that it is LEGAL to use lethal force to meet a lethal threat when the threat to life is credible.

This correct, but situation dependent. There is a case recently in England where a home owner shot the bloke who was breaking into his house, and ended up in prison, go figure.

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Obviously. You realize you just spoke of "the increase in availability of guns" even as we are observant of the fact that the guns are OUTRIGHT BANNED in the U.K.??

Yip, as stated if you really want one you can get it, ask Kennedy about the black market.

The ban isn't keeping guns from all criminals, but it at very least makes it more difficult, and will generally keep them out of the hands of school kids etc a good thing as far as I am concerned.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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you see that rarely happens because everyone is well aware that these cameras are here and they are being monitored b
y the police cctv response crew. Yes this makes me safe and i feel safe.
Do not preach what you are not familiar with.
I feel safe in england, i use to live across from the baras in glasgow scotland. I lived on london road right across the road from them, the red light district of glasgow. I walked out at night all the time, never felt like i needed a gun.
You live somewhere like there And you will understand. This is a very rough place and has a huge reputation. Maybe you are incapable of defending yourself and need a gun. Do not tell england what they do and dont need....look how fucked up the states are.
You are trying to say what is needed in this country. there are hardly any countries in this world where you can walk around with a gun, this is a good thing. This why many countries are alot safer than america. Our children do not shhot themselves by accident nor do we show off our guns.
America, is the country in this world that is trying to make the world a peaceful place while destroying it.
Worry about your own country.

Go clean your guns and feel safe.
peace,
never coming in speakers corner again.

Wasn't it a Brit who started this thread, and invited people -- with no qualifications about nationality or country of residence -- to comment? So what the fuck are you doing telling me I should silence myself and not talk about England?

I'm so glad you feel made safe by cameras. I suppose a camera puts a physical boundary between you and a psychopath who doesn't care about getting caught, or maybe doesn't think he even will get caught. Or a drunk who doesn't have the presence of mind to remember the cameras.

And if I can't talk about England since I don't live there, (I beg your forgiveness -- please, please forgive me!) why the hell can you talk about "many countries" that are "alot safer than America"? After all, by your own standards, you should keep your mouth shut unless you live in a country. By your argument, your own comments on those supposedly safe countries are not valid.

I guess countries like Jamaica and Haiti and Mexico, where the populace is forbidden to have guns, are really safe, huh? No gun violence over there, right? No black market guns on the streets, right?

OH, WAIT! I forgot! The missing magical ingredient!... those countries don't yet have the All-Purpose Safety-Guaranteeing Magical CAMERAS installed yet!

P.S. We all know how safe people are in countries like Rwanda, Somalia, and Sudan. People are SO much safer when hacked to death with machetes than they are when shot to death with guns.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[mr2mk1g 10]

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That's just asinine.

Why? Both are rights I do not want nor do I want other people in my country to have. Why should I lament the lack of one yet applaud the lack of the other?

[Skyrad 0]

Part of the problem is lack of room in prisons as they are already way overcrowded. personaly i'd like to see life mean life, I'd like to see the reintroduction of prison ships where we can put these people and station them out in the northsea. We're WAY to soft on criminals over here. Maybe retuen to public floggings.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Sweet, cheers dude!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mr2mk1g 10]

I agree. The Conservatives came out with that stance a week ago but I don't think anyone really belives Michael Howard actually has a clue. He certainly didn't sound very convincing to me. Pitty.

I see no excuse for "life" not meaning "life". If you don't mean "life" why call it "life" - just give it another name and stop panzying arround.