Is shooting down a civilian plane legitimate?

[Kennedy 0]

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only makes sense from a deterrence standpoint

Well thank God the people that actually make those decisions don't agree with you.

Actually, the people with authority to make that decision - congress - do agree with him. However, bureaucrats in charge of Thousands Standing Around are imagining they have more power than they do (like that's rare for paper-pushing desk jockeys)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[tunaplanet 0]

If they agreed pilots would be armed.

No, congress does not agree.

Forty-two

[gmanpilot 0]

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If they agreed pilots would be armed.

We do have armed pilots, they are called Federal flight Deck Officers, they are commercial pilots who work for the airlines and they will be deployed on more than 20,000 flights this month alone.

If congress did not agree, how did the Arming Pilots Against Terrorist Act get passed? It established the FFDO program at the overwhelming behest of the American public. The TSA and the commercial airlines are the ones who did not want the program, not congress. So your misguided contention that congress does not think that arming pilots serves as a deterrent is not based upon evidence or fact.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[tunaplanet 0]

Pilots are not armed. The sky is safer for it. Period.

Anything else?

Forty-two

[gmanpilot 0]

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Pilots are not armed. The sky is safer for it. Period. Anything else?

Yes, wtf are you talking about?? There are hundreds of armed pilots (FFDO's) flying every day.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Pilots are not armed. The sky is safer for it. Period.

Anything else?

Yeah, one more thing. What world do you live in? There are armed pilots. There is a training program to allow pilots to become armed. Many have gone through it and now fly armed. You're wrong.

[tunaplanet 0]

Oh, you mean the less than 2% that fly armed?
Wow, that's significant.

Forty-two

[gmanpilot 0]

First you said:

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Pilots are not armed.

Then you said:

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Oh, you mean the less than 2% that fly armed?

Holy halibut fishman!, you hooked yourself. And FWIW, the percentage is higher than that, and it is growing steadily.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[tunaplanet 0]

The number is that and no, didn't hook myself.

Some of you people crack me up with your repetitive rhetoric. Less than 2% of pilots with weapons is hardly worthy of saying, "pilots are armed."

When that number rises to around 25-40% then you can say we have armed pilots.

Same thing with Air Marshalls. Less than 1% of all flights have them. Would I say we have AMs? No.

Be realistic when engaging in debates.

Forty-two

[gmanpilot 0]

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The number is that and no, didn't hook myself.

Some of you people crack me up with your repetitive rhetoric. Less than 2% of pilots with weapons is hardly worthy of saying, "pilots are armed."

When that number rises to around 25-40% then you can say we have armed pilots.

Same thing with Air Marshalls. Less than 1% of all flights have them. Would I say we have AMs? No.

Be realistic when engaging in debates.

You want reality? Ok, here it is. You are wrong on all counts. I know exactly what the percentages are (as of yesterday), and you are wrong. Hell, you don't even know how to spell Air Marshals correctly. You state your opinion like you are some sort of subject matter expert, and you are not. Your just another misinformed Monday morning quarterback.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[PhillyKev 0]

Nice back pedal. First you say Congress didn't authorize it, but they did. Then you say there aren't any armed, but their are. Now you say it's an insiginificant percentage. You're a wealth of misinformation.

[tunaplanet 0]

Re-read my last post. If you need tutoring in comprehension, I'll PM you some contacts.

Wealth of misinformation? Hardly. That crowning belongs to you. I actually make a point to read some of your posts for the comedy relief.

Around 2% of pilots with weapons is hardly enough to claim, "we have armed pilots."

Anything else?

Good. I need to hit the range. Laters.

Forty-two

[gmanpilot 0]

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Anything else?

Yes, I re-read your post and it's still bullshit. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[tunaplanet 0]

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You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing about you.

I'll let you all continue to argue like school girls. I have a date with a paper target.

Peace

Forty-two

[cliffharris 0]

1. you're wrong.
2. you should consider a career in politics.

[Casurf1978 0]

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Amen. And let's not forget all the other means they could terrorize the US.....

- Suicide bombings in schools

- Ebola

- Botulism

- Poison water supplies

- Dirty bombs

And there are many others I won't list. It's impossible to defend against everything.

Do whatever you have to...just don't give the pilots anymore responsibility

Ebola? Are you kidding? You have any idea how lethal and fast that bug is. The only reason it doesnt spread like wild fire is because it kills you before you even have the slightest chance or spreading it. Ebola is classified as a type 4 pathogen, Aids is type 2. No way in hell could a terrorist group get any type 4 pathogen like Ebola, Lassa or Marburg bugs.

[tunaplanet 0]

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No way in hell could a terrorist group get any type 4 pathogen like Ebola, Lassa or Marburg bugs.

You are way off the mark on that. Let's just leave it there.

And it is one of the most fast-spreading Pathogens around. The fact that it spreads so quickly is why it is the most dangerous Pathogen on the planet.

Forty-two

[Casurf1978 0]

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No way in hell could a terrorist group get any type 4 pathogen like Ebola, Lassa or Marburg bugs.

You are way off the mark on that. Let's just leave it there.

And it is one of the most fast-spreading Pathogens around. The fact that it spreads so quickly is why it is the most dangerous Pathogen on the planet.

Just curious how a terrorist group can even get access to a level 4 pathogen? With three BSL 4 labs in the USA one at USAMRID, CDC and the other at San Antonio you just cant walk in and out. Also good luck trying to find the natural resevoir for Ebola or other such bugs. Chances are w/o proper training or equipment, youre going to die looking for them, that is if you can even find it to begin with.

Ebola is one of the deadliest bugs on the planet, but it's lethality and virulence are what keep it contained. When an infection pops out in the middle of Africa, by the time the bug hunters get there the village has been whiped out.

[tunaplanet 0]

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Just curious how a terrorist group can even get access to a level 4 pathogen?

First off, there are at least one terrorist group that has the Ebola Pathogen.

Acquiring it would not be that too difficult. There are many countries that have Ebola. Not to mention most of these cells have very talented scientists and medical personel on payrolls.

Forty-two

[tunaplanet 0]

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The only reason it doesnt spread like wild fire is because it kills you before you even have the slightest chance or spreading it.

Really? Hmmmm, every source I have checked says it kills you between 8-17 days after it comes into contact with you.

Forty-two

[PhillyKev 0]

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When an infection pops out in the middle of Africa, by the time the bug hunters get there the village has been whiped out.

Not to mention it is spread through bodily fluids. It's not airborn and there is no carrier state. You can only get it by caring for an infected person or being stuck with an infected needle.

[tunaplanet 0]

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You can only get it by caring for an infected person or being stuck with an infected needle.

It's not airborn

Negative.

All Ebola can be spread through airborne particles under research conditions. This type of spread just has not been documented in a real-world setting. However, it is possible.

Forty-two

[Casurf1978 0]

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Just curious how a terrorist group can even get access to a level 4 pathogen?

First off, there are at least one terrorist group that has the Ebola Pathogen.

Acquiring it would not be that too difficult. There are many countries that have Ebola. Not to mention most of these cells have very talented scientists and medical personel on payrolls.

Which group? What strain? How do they contain it? How did they acquire it? I'm sure a hellof a lot of people at CDC and USAMRID would want to know how they handle it w/o special suits, labs, or training.

I know that the Russian tried to weopnize it with small pox, as did we. Most of this is rumored, but no hard evidence was ever mentioned. Even experts doubt this (Russian success I mean). If we or the Russians did not succeed how can a terrorist group. The Japanese Aum (I think thats the name) group sent a few idiots to Zaire when there was an outbreak there. It's doubtful they even got with 100 miles of the village and obtaining a sample from an infected person w/o proper equipment is suicidal. Even with proper equipment it's very dangerous.

It's a facinating field, if you want I can send you links to books and articles on these bugs. Those virus hunters, man they got some major steel cajones.

[Casurf1978 0]

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The only reason it doesnt spread like wild fire is because it kills you before you even have the slightest chance or spreading it.

Really? Hmmmm, every source I have checked says it kills you between 8-17 days after it comes into contact with you.

You are correct, but I shouldve been clearer. What keeps it contained to specefic parts, i.e., a certain village is that since it kills you so fast your ability to spread it is contained. Once you start getting symptons your mobility is very limited. They say it hits you like a ton of bricks, chills before you go to sleep and 8 hours later you cant move.

As to it being airborne as a natural vector of transmission there is only one strain Ebola Reston, not the Zaire strain and it is only harmful (airborne strain) to monkeys. This was the strain found in Va back in the 1990s. The 1976 Zaire break out was so wide spread because missionaries were immunizing the locals with hypodermic needles that were not sterilized.

[PhillyKev 0]

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The 1976 Zaire break out was so wide spread because missionaries were immunizing the locals with hypodermic needles that were not sterilized.

I knew there was a good reason they're always getting boiled in pots and having their heads shrunken.