Food for thought

[akarunway 1]

I am watching and reading all this political BS about Iraq. What say we just pull out of Iraq and let Saddam free. What do you think the Iraq people would have to say then?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[TheAnvil 0]

I think chaos would ensue in short order.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Tink1717 2]

Unlike what's going on now?

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[TheAnvil 0]

No. What's going on right now isn't really all that chaotic.

Leaving the country right now given its ability to defend itself would be a very very very bad move from an external perspective. Iran would likely invade, and possibly Syria as well. the temptation would just be too great. Then add into that the internal fighting that would be going on and you have a humanitarian disaster for the avg. Iraqi, whose lot has risen exponentially since the US invasion.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Kennedy 0]

Have you heard any reports of gencide in the streets? No? Good, neither have the rest of us. Do you think that would last if we pulled out right now?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Tink1717 2]

No genocide yet, but that will surely happen when we leave. The religious extremeists are the only power capable of filling the power vacuum that will occur when we leave. The entire operation will result in the creation of another anti-western Islamic theocracy. Nothing can prevent that now. Saddam was bad and needed to go. But the cure in this case will be worse than the disease. We have succeeded in destabilizing the entire region.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Tink1717 2]

All of which will happen anyway. We will not be able, no matter how long we stay, to set up a stable government that will have the needed power to resist the regional threats. The Shia and Sunni will untie to form another anti western Islamic theocracy. The region has been permanently destabilized.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[TheAnvil 0]

I disagree. Iran/Syria will launch no attacks with US troops on the ground in Iraq.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Tink1717 2]

With Iraq disabled, Iran will have no interest in Iraq, Syria will, but they will be tied up with supporting HAMAS in Israel for the near future.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Kennedy 0]

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All of which will happen anyway. We will not be able, no matter how long we stay, to set up a stable government that will have the needed power to resist the regional threats.

Wasn't it you who said Isreal would not exist if we weren't propping them up? Kind of undercuts your position that US support is not enough to resist regional threats.

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The Shia and Sunni will untie to form another anti western Islamic theocracy.

Next you're going to tell us how Israel and Iran will be teaming up to fight someone else.

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The region has been permanently destabilized.

Was it ever really stable?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[WrongWay 0]

I say we get on with it and kill him already. After that, get Bush out of office cuz his job would be done. We all know his whole reason for running was to finish daddy's war.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Orchid 0]

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I am watching and reading all this political BS about Iraq. What say we just pull out of Iraq and let Saddam free.
***I'd say 1) you're insane, 2) the iraqi people would think that the Americans are in sane and 3) I would not think that the Americans....give up that easily.

"Love is doing small things with great love."

Lacrosse: Legally beating men with sticks since 1492

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[DivaSkyChick 0]

I was semi wondering the same thing - not that we release Saddam, mind you, but what exactly would happen if Bush declared, with great "todo" that the US had successfully accomplished it's mission, Iraq was free from a brutal dictator, and the US is now going to pull out and let the Iraqi people decide it's own fate?

They could also say that red cross and international aid workers would stay as long as they were welcome and safe, to offer services the Iraqi's need, for as long as necessary. All those services would cost less than the ongoing occupation...

In my scenario, Syria and Iran do not invade, because the world community, including the middle eastern states, agrees that they better not. What if Iraq really just had to sort itself out... What's the worst that would happen?

Any reasonable thoughts here?

---
www.facebook.com/mandyhamptonfitch

[billvon 2,471]

>but what exactly would happen if Bush declared, with great "todo"
> that the US had successfully accomplished it's mission, Iraq was free
> from a brutal dictator, and the US is now going to pull out and let
> the Iraqi people decide it's own fate?

1. The puppet government would collapse instantly.

2. Shi'a and Sunni clerics would rally their militias and fight it out for control of the country.

3. The Kurds in northern Iraq would start chatting with the Kurds in southern Turkey and say "Hey, how about we ditch these losers and form a new country - Kurdistan! The jews have their own homeland, why can't we?"

4. Turkey would declare war on the Kurds, putting us in a tough position.

5. Iran would start stealthy invasions of Iraq to secure some borderlands.

All in all, hundreds of thousands would die in the fighting before one warlord rose above the rest and killed all his enemies. The end result would be either Saddam II (if he's more secular) or Taliban II (if he's more religious.)

>In my scenario, Syria and Iran do not invade, because the world
> community, including the middle eastern states, agrees that they
> better not.

We didn't listen to the "world community", why would Iran?

[Tink1717 2]

Yep, Israel would not exist of not for the US. Without us, Egypt, Syria and Jordan would have destroyed Israel long ago. And your point would be?

Nope, Israel and Iran will always be at each others throats.

RIght, the region is even less stable than it was before. Neat trick.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[DivaSkyChick 0]

Thanks for your thoughts.

---
www.facebook.com/mandyhamptonfitch

[Casurf1978 0]

You summed it up pretty well. I could see Iran still having a score to settle, but Syria. Why would they invade? Oil? Also what would happen to Kuwait amongst all this chaos. Not to mention Saudia Arabia.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Unlike what's going on now?

Well at least it would force those who say they don't want the U.S. to do what it has done or is doing to admit that yes, they're glad we did it all; glad we deposed Saddam, glad we got rid of many of his supporters, his torturers, his sadistic motherfucker sons...

If we said, "Here, you can have him back," I imagine it would be hard for them to not say, "Waitaminute, no, no, keep him, you were right, we're better off that the U.S. removed him from power, and the U.S. HAS helped us through its actions."
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I was semi wondering the same thing - not that we release Saddam, mind you, but what exactly would happen if Bush declared, with great "todo" that the US had successfully accomplished it's mission, Iraq was free from a brutal dictator, and the US is now going to pull out and let the Iraqi people decide it's own fate?

They could also say that red cross and international aid workers would stay as long as they were welcome and safe, to offer services the Iraqi's need, for as long as necessary. All those services would cost less than the ongoing occupation...

In my scenario, Syria and Iran do not invade, because the world community, including the middle eastern states, agrees that they better not. What if Iraq really just had to sort itself out... What's the worst that would happen?

Any reasonable thoughts here?

I agree that Syria and Iran would not invade. If they did, perhaps that would spur the pussy countries like France and Germany, which wouldn't help the U.S. depose Saddam, into HAVING to lend help to get things stable over there.

There was a huge coalition when Iraq invaded Kuwait. If Syria or Iran invaded Iraq, there would HAVE to be a U.N. mandate to go in and push them out, possibly decimating their armed forces in the process.

So maybe what's needed for the U.S. to do IS to pull the hell out. LET the surrounding countries start eyeing Iraqi oil fields. Then what excuse could France give for not supporting a military effort in Iraq?
-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[billvon 2,471]

> but Syria. Why would they invade?

I don't know that they would. They would certainly have an interest in having a friendly neighbor to the south.

>Also what would happen to Kuwait amongst all this chaos. Not to
> mention Saudia Arabia.

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia would continue to suck up to the US. They've gotten used to our money and protection, I think.