In the door and exit separation

[Legs 0]

Tom

Again, thank you for your artcle and some of the others on your web site. I haven't yet read them all but I have found the ones I have read informative and helpful.

I have asked several times for different peoples techniques with spotting. In another thread I have been specific in the technique I am using at the moment. I have expressed concern about some techniques I have seen in use. This has got no input as yet.

I guess I am a little frustrated because I feel ground seperation is so important each individual or group should be spotting for themselves to prevent mid air collisions.

I take on board your premace in the article that time is distance, but because of variables how much time is the required distance is variable. Good spotting is a learnt skill and wonder wether encouragment to practice this skill rather than counting the seconds past would be a better way to go.

Thank you for your reply

With love in Christ

[tombuch 0]

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I guess I am a little frustrated because I feel ground seperation is so important each individual or group should be spotting for themselves to prevent mid air collisions.

I take on board your premace in the article that time is distance, but because of variables how much time is the required distance is variable. Good spotting is a learnt skill and wonder wether encouragment to practice this skill rather than counting the seconds past would be a better way to go.

Knowing where you are is the first part of spotting, and I think you are correct that each individual or group should be engaged in the process. Counting seconds is a critical part of spotting, but is pretty worthless unless the individuals understand why they are counting, and what amount of time is appropriate for a given jumprun. Plus, another important part of spotting is looking for traffic. So, yes, I agree it is a process, and every jumper should be informed and involved on every jumprun.

As you have pointed out, part of spotting is getting adequate separation for the specific groups under given wind conditions, and part of it is getting everybody to land back on the DZ. The pilot can use GPS and figure out where to dump his load so everybody lands on the DZ, but he can't figure out space between groups because ideal space is determined by group size, type of jump, time needed to set-up in the door, and ground track (wind).

Getting each person involved is tough. Every instructor should make it part of the basic training, and S&TA's should focus on this skill among experienced jumpers. Pilots need to be involved in generating buy-in, but too often pilots don't want jumpers to spot or contribute at all. Getting past that attitude is a biggy, but at many DZ's, the pilot has the support of the DZO and it's just "turn on the light and everybody get out NOW, NOW, NOW!" I don't jump at those drop zones, and if I encounter that attitude I go someplace else.

I suppose this would be a good topic for a safety day seminar so that everybody really thinks through the complexities of spotting, and how important it is for every jumper to understand the process and participate in keeping the groups safe.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Legs 0]

Tom

I jump in the UK and have not yet come accross the pilot issue you talk about. Here it is up to the pilot to ensure we have ATC clearence to leave the plane, the green light goes on but the allocated Jump Master and individual skydivers are responsible for the spot. and I have seen a left or right correction given to the pilot on many occasions. It is also a skill we need to demonstrate to get our B license. One that I am working on at the moment.

Thank you for your input it is interesting to here how it is done elsewhere.

With love in Christ

[kallend 1,683]

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I suppose this would be a good topic for a safety day seminar so that everybody really thinks through the complexities of spotting, and how important it is for every jumper to understand the process and participate in keeping the groups safe.

See here.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[kallend 1,683]

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which is approx 1/2 the necessary separation?

Right! Is there a lesson here?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[dontiego 0]

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OK, suppose the plane makes an angular pitch change of just 2 degrees on a jump run at 13k. (Or your estimation of constant angle is off by 2 degrees). What error, in seconds, does that introduce in the exit separation in, say, a King Air?

By the way, do you have a good technique to look right beneath the plane, whatsoever pitch it has?

I have been taught to look at the horizon, have it really horizontal and get my eyes to follow a path perpendicular to the horizon until I reach under the plane.

It's hard to say if it works fine, of course. Any other idea?

"We call on the common man to rise up in revolt against this evil of typographical ignorance."
http://bancomicsans.com

[billvon 2,478]

>I have been taught to look at the horizon, have it really horizontal and get
>my eyes to follow a path perpendicular to the horizon until I reach under the plane.

I do something similar. Look out the door at the horizon, then move your eyes 90 degrees down. Do the same for the front of the plane - look past the nose at the horizon, then move your eyes 90 degrees down. Where those two sight lines cross is directly down. (Also gets you looking around a bit more.)