* READ THIS * a lesson learned

[skyhawk 2]

yer hellian dont worry about it this was aimed at ppl that r off aff. during your aff your instructors will look after you. (but look around just to get used to it :-) )

[Deleted 0]

i don't think belly fliers out first should be the solid rule. i come from a dz where the reverse is foten true - for the simple reson that the freefliers are open a good 30 seconds earlier. unless the winds are smoking up top, those who will be open first are best out first. freefliers ahead of an 8way might well open up a full minute ahead of the rwfolks. after all, who takes longest in the door and screws the spot. also, rw fliers are falling belly to earth (i.e. they can see where they're going more easily) and they tend to break lower and track less than say a head down peelout. everyone needs to be looking down by 5grand. i have never had an rw flier track past me under canopy but have had several ffer's do it. i say get the lawndarts out of the way.

[Geoff 0]

I guess that's OK for a 2 way - but what if it's a 4 way or an 8 way? then you can't rely on people tracking perpendicular to the line of flight - you need adequate separation between groups, to include the fact that some people will be tracking along the line of flight.
Surely?
Geoff

[Hellian 0]

Thanx for the info, i didn't read the link IFlyme, because i was at school, but i will when i get home tonight.
I like that when doing AFF i'll be able to get used to these things because having been told them here, rather than getting off AFF and having to start learning such things from scratch..
Cheers for the info and the votes of confidence, i think any worries i have are far outweighed by just how much i want to do this course!
Ed

[SkySlut 0]

Correct and that is why the largest groups get out first because they would have the right of way in the sky because they dont have any choice to track up and down the line of flight and they would be the lower group whereas a smaller group has that choice. See what I am getting at?
"I'll jump anything!"

[fruce 0]

Dude, I don't mean to offend you, but you must be smoking crack right now. Hello everyone, read Geoff's responses to this post, his comments/knowledge will keep you safe.
fruce
http://www.fruce.com

[SkySlut 0]

Who me??? Why am I smoking crack??? Wouldnt you agree that you can track into a previous group if you arent aware of your relation to them??? No offense taken, that is what these groups are for...discussion. Please inform me of my erroneous ways. I am more than happy to listen. Thanks.
"I'll jump anything!"

[fruce 0]

No, I’m not, I was responding to this thread by anonymous …….. peace
----------------------i don't think belly fliers out first should be the solid rule. i come from a dz where the reverse is foten true - for the simple reson that the freefliers are open a good 30 seconds earlier. unless the winds are smoking up top, those who will be open first are best out first. freefliers ahead of an 8way might well open up a full minute ahead of the rwfolks. after all, who takes longest in the door and screws the spot. also, rw fliers are falling belly to earth (i.e. they can see where they're going more easily) and they tend to break lower and track less than say a head down peelout. everyone needs to be looking down by 5grand. i have never had an rw flier track past me under canopy but have had several ffer's do it. i say get the lawndarts out of the way.
-----------------------------------------------------
fruce
http://www.fruce.com

[SkySlut 0]

word.
my bad.
"I'll jump anything!"

[Geoff 0]

I do see what you're getting at, but I don't agree, and I've never jumped at a DZ that does what you're suggesting. I'd be real nervous being told to close the gaps between me and a 2 way group, but not to worry because they'll be tracking across line of flight. It's very easy to get disoriented, especially if you go through a patch of cloud. - I know we shouldn't cloudbust, but sometimes it just happens accidentally.
IMHO exit separation should assume that 2 ways will track the 'wrong way', and that anybody could deploy prematurely or go low. If 2 ways do manage to track cross-ways, then great - that's even safer.
Being aware of other groups in freefall is a great idea, and can help compensate for other things going wrong, but if your plans depend on it, then sooner or later, someone's gonna get hurt or die.
Geoff

[SkySlut 0]

Geoff,
I am not suggesting in any way that you plans should hing on people tracking in the right directions or that you should close the gap between groups. I am just saying that you should be aware. It is something that a lot of people do not think about or do not know about. It is easy to get disoriented and if you are disoriented, it is even easier to track into another group. Being aware of other groups and yourself is only one step in the safety process (along with proper time and angle separation out the door). The only thing I am saying is that jumpers should be aware of this. It is really scary to hear someone scream over your shoulder 20 feet away from you...
"I'll jump anything!"

[Geoff 0]

Peripheral awareness is a great bonus, but if you're giving the skydive your total concentration, it's not always available.
OK - I'll stop arguing, though I do enjoy it as you've probably noticed!
BTW - How many posts do I need to lose this 'Newbie' tag?

[SkySlut 0]

I love to argue myself so no worries...we get to have fun and learn some things to boot. I think that its 50 to drop the newbie...
"I'll jump anything!"

[Greg 0]

At my DZ they have always made me extremely aware of the line of flight. I actually came up with a pretty good method while doing solos, at least it worked for me, while exiting the Otter or King Air (side exit) to be aware of where the line of flight is. Typically, right as I get to the door before exit, I try to find a landmark or recognizable formation on the horizon (mountain, or something obvious). Then when you exit, you can become unstable or spin or roll or whatever, and then after you are off the hill and stable, you can then locate your land mark and you know where the line of flight is because you looked at it out of the door of the jumpship (read, you can be relativly sure you are not tracking up or down the line of flight if you track towards your landmark).
My $0.02

[Iflyme 0]

Ya, Greg, I agree that you should always know which direction jump run is in... I'm always in a C-182, so it is pretty easy to just look out the window and see where you are heading, but in the bigger planes, I guess you have to make more of an effort to find out where you are heading... and sthe senior jumpers have drilled it into me, too - track perpendicular to jump run (when solo jumping), and do the same under canopy if you can - fly 90' from jump run for a bit to get away from the line of flight.
Frank

[des 2]

the most commonsense answer to this problem,is look out the door,when the previous group is at a 45 degree angle ,it's safe to exit.too much technical argument just screws the situation.
des

[Hellian 0]

Quote

BTW - How many posts do I need to lose this 'Newbie' tag?

i think it's 60, then 200 to become an Old Hand, although that might be 300, as the only people whom i have checked their profiles had over 300...
anyway, time for a lesson :o)
Ed