New or Used - Mirage G4-M5

[Joellercoaster 6]

mattjw916

why jump some ragged out/possibly out of trim "older" parachute? When I see people pack a $300 (if that) parachute into a $3000 rig I simply wonder, why?

Other people have answered this pretty well, but I'll chime in.

"Possibly" out of trim? It's either out of trim or it's not, and finding out is not a mystery you have to solve after you buy it.

I bought a Stiletto the other day for 300 clams - and it had just been relined. To, you know, go in my $3000 container.

There was no practical difference, flight wise, between that and one I'd spend a couple of grand on to buy new. Except it was somewhat ugly, and very easy to pack.

Why would I do that? An easy 70 jump tickets, that's why.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Deyan 31]

tsf

If you had to choose only 1 to spend money on, then it makes sense. But, I think he was asking why people skimp on the main instead of, say, saving up a little longer to get BOTH a nice main and a nice container. With that in mind, going back to your points:

1. A main is something you have fun with, but why not have it "save your life" as well by being new or relatively unused, nice/clean lines, well-maintained, etc.? If you can add some extra degree of safety without compromising how fun it is, why not?

2. A poor fitting rig is a safety hazard, and the canopy you quoted **might** be airworthy. Why not remove all doubt for the sake of safety and not buy such a rough canopy?

3. Most of that time is just sitting in the plane, though. You spend a fair amount of time under canopy as well. Arguably, under canopy is the most important as you rely on it to get back down safely. So, it seems strange to skimp on this part.

4. I'm assuming you're referring to slower pack times on a new canopy? Okay, it'll be slower in the beginning, but if it's safety we're talking about, is maybe dropping ~1-2 jump per day until it becomes less slippery really that big of a deal?

OK, I'll answer that.

1. I've seen main blow apart only 5 jumps since brand new. Higher jump number doesn't necessary means more dangerous to jump.

2. I used the word "might" because I don't want to send a wrong message that every canopy with patches and out of trim is airworthy. Some patches are well made, others are just crap. You don't know what "might" be the case. The same counts for the canopy "out of trim". Some canopies handle trim changes better than others. It all depend of size,model...... I hope you see why I choose the word "might". I would have no doubts if I see the hypothetical canopy.

3. You are right. Most of the time is waiting with the rig on. However if you have made 6-8-10 jumps per day, you know how important is well fitting rig. During that time, your 2000+ $ main does nothing for your comfort.

4. Actually I meant that the value of the rig is higher than the value of the main. Have you seen a main with 3000+ jumps? I haven't. But I've seen a lot of rigs with that amount of jumps still airworthy and still in use.

To each their own. It's fine if you disagree.

Cheers

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[mattjw916 2]

Quote

"Possibly" out of trim? It's either out of trim or it's not, and finding out is not a mystery you have to solve after you buy it.

When you buy a used canopy for $300 you're rolling the dice, no two ways about it. You're taking someone's word on the condition, jump #s, how it was stored, packed, etc... just because you happened to get lucky on a nice deal doesn't mean everyone is going to have the same experience.

New jumpers (like the OP) aren't going to be in the market for a tiny Stiletto so your whole example is apples and oranges. Stilettos are a dime a dozen because they've been in production for so long and fewer up-jumpers are interested in them now. No way you're going to find a solid beginner's canopy for $300 unless you get lucky, it's something really old, in need of repairs, or a scam.

If you want to spend your canopy time under a Spinetto, Splatwing, Heatwave, Cobalt, Diablo, or any of the "exciting" canopies from the previous generation have at it. There's a lifetime supply of them in the classifieds. Just avoid a Nova if you find one.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Joellercoaster 6]

OK, so ya got me on the Splatwing

But I just disagree about the rest of it. You can inspect a canopy, or have someone else do it if you don't feel and you're not rolling the dice any more than you are when you buy a more expensive one. Forget the Stiletto, substitute a more beginner friendly main like a Sabre or a Triathlon (I have seen both of these going for cheap in the last month in big sizes) and it's still not a terrible idea.

Would they like a Pilot or a Safire2 more? Very likely. But spending that money on jump tickets is a valid choice too
[edit to add: Lots of people still buy brand new Stilettos. Older design does not mean crap.]

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[GoHuskers 0]

NWFlyer

***[
1. Used AADs will always be a sellers market.
2. If more than 3 of the same brand are listed in the classifieds and attractively priced, you don't want that brand.

Yep, my response to #1 is embedded in #2. "Unless it's an Argus."

Has the Argus ever had a fail to fire or fire outside of parameters incident or just the cutter issues.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Joellercoaster

Lots of people still buy brand new Stilettos.

*ahem* including, now, me. I love mine.

In general flight not quite as graceful as a Crossfire, but it opens better (to my taste anyway) and just glides forever. It's simply a great canopy.

FWIW, I hated the same-sized Katana. Certainly a more 'modern' design but unless you really want to swoop big, it flies like a dump truck.

PS you were still right about the Batwing though.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?