JeffCa 0 #1 May 30, 2013 I believe I can gain a safety advantage over a regular PD Reserve by either getting Dacron on the PD-R 193 or getting more square footage with a larger Optimum 218 (only comes w/ Spectra). Both will give me a reserve WL < 1. Which do you think will be more likely to add to the safety of my future reserve ride(s)? I am not considering cost here, so please don't factor in the higher cost of the Optimum. I am ordering my container to fit the reserve I choose, so that is also not a factor, but it is my understanding that both will fit in about the same space. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #2 May 30, 2013 If you're worried about hard openings, I can confirm that the Optimum opens just fine at terminal."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #3 May 30, 2013 Dacron on a PD Reserve 193,,, indicates an older reserve which begs many more questions. How old is it? How many repacks? How many reserve rides? etc. Upsizing to Optimum 218 will increase safety more. In both cases; it depends on your reserve wingloading. I will share this with you... Nobody has ever looked up at a reserve and said, "Ya know, I really don't need this much reserve." Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #4 May 30, 2013 BIGUNDacron on a PD Reserve 193,,, indicates an older reserve which begs many more questions. How old is it? How many repacks? How many reserve rides? etc. All options are brand new. PD still makes custom PD-R's with Dacron. It's on the order form. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #5 May 30, 2013 DocPopIf you're worried about hard openings, I can confirm that the Optimum opens just fine at terminal. That's exactly what I'm worried about. A terminal opening in perhaps a less-than-ideal body position. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #6 May 30, 2013 OK... Then really it's your choice. Either one will serve you well. You "might" consider resale issues on the dacron lines.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #7 May 30, 2013 BIGUN You "might" consider resale issues on the dacron lines. No thanks, not a concern. :-) Your advice about the large reserve being nice was read and noted. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #8 May 30, 2013 I have jumped both the PDR and Optimum in the 143 at 1.4. Have taken them both terminal. I much preferred the Optimum. When I bought my new container, could have gone with the OP143 to have a smaller rig. Decided to go with the 160 for the reason mentioned above, more fabric. The Optimum would be my advice for anyone when deciding what reserve to buy.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floormonkey 0 #9 May 30, 2013 You should call them or email them and ask. The manufacturer will have the answers to all your questions, and will likely be more knowledgeable with real proof then the anecdotal information you will get asking here. PD, along with most manufacturers (all in my experience) will be happy to help you and answer all your questions. PD=Ph: +1 (386) 738-2224 email: [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #10 May 30, 2013 floormonkeyYou should call them or email them and ask. The manufacturer will have the answers to all your questions, and will likely be more knowledgeable with real proof then the anecdotal information you will get asking here. PD, along with most manufacturers (all in my experience) will be happy to help you and answer all your questions. PD=Ph: +1 (386) 738-2224 email: [email protected] Thanks. I am in contact with PD already. I figured an appeal to a wider group might be a good idea. When you contact a manufacturer of any item in any industry, they might be more interested in selling the most expensive product. Also, I've already learned that the idea about Dacron providing any benefit at all is not unanimous. One manufacturer I spoke to called it "obsolete", while another highly recommends it. So getting a wider opinion seems appropriate. I'm sure both options would be absolutely great, but I'm wondering if I can get just a little edge here. Am I more likely to have a hard reserve opening and wish I had Dacron, or am I more likely to wish I had a little extra square footage for the advantages it offers? "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #11 May 30, 2013 JeffCa***If you're worried about hard openings, I can confirm that the Optimum opens just fine at terminal. That's exactly what I'm worried about. A terminal opening in perhaps a less-than-ideal body position. Demo an OM (Optimum as a main). That's what I did. If you go that route you have a comfortable opening at terminal AND a bigger wing when you're under it. Bingo!"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #12 May 30, 2013 DocPop Demo an OM (Optimum as a main). That's what I did. If you go that route you have a comfortable opening at terminal AND a bigger wing when you're under it. Bingo! Ha! You Americans (and foreign jumpers in the USA) have no idea how spoiled you are. PD doesn't send demo canopies overseas, according to their website. The rest of us are stuck going by word of mouth and copious internet reading, which is another reason for me to reach out to all y'all. But your voice is nearly unanimous with the others in the poll, so it seems it will be the larger Optimum for me. This is the result I was expecting. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floormonkey 0 #13 May 31, 2013 While I understand that mentality with a dealer, it's not really true of manufacturer who you aren't actually buying the canopy from. That idea is especially not true of PD. Just because something costs more doesn't mean the dealer makes more profit. Manufacturer's in skydiving aren't exactly the same as others; they have an interest in keeping you alive and safe. PD used to recommend Dacron for 200lb+ or camera jumpers. Since the Optimum, they have dropped that and recommend the Optimum. PD tests and test jumps more canopies than probably anyone on the planet, and want to make sure their customers and skydivers are safe and happy with their product. If you knew the qualifications of the people responding, that would be one thing. However, these forums often have people who only regurgitate what they've heard and don't actually understand what advice they are given, or only give advice from their (limited) experience rather than a tested and retested hypothesis. By making a poll, you are simply having a popularity contest, not judging responses by the reputation or qualifications of the responder. For all you know, the majority of the responders may have under 100 jumps and have never jumped any reserve, much less a PDR w/ Dacron and and Optimum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #14 May 31, 2013 Good points floormonkey, thanks for the input. Regardless of the results of the poll, PD is going to be consulted before the order is complete. They've (or rather, their rep on email has) been highly recommending the Optimum so far. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floormonkey 0 #15 June 4, 2013 For the record, I have jumped both the PDR w/ Dacron and the Optimum. I've jumped the PDR 143/Dacron @ 1.3:1 and the OP [email protected]:1, the OP126 @ 1.6:1, the PDR 160 w/ microline @ 1.18:1. These weren't all reserve rides, I demo my current reserve size each season, unless I've had a reserve ride recently. I've had terminal openings on the each of these. Though the 143/Dacron had a softer opening shock, the OP143 was not a hard opening at all. I feel the OP143 is a "better" canopy. When I say that, I mean it flies like a more modern canopy, and has a stronger flare. Remember, this is all anecdotal recall, backed only by my experience. Unless the jumper was 220lbs+ (100kg+), I would recommend the OP. If the jumper was over this weight, I would consult the manufacturer and follow their recommendations. European demos: http://www.performancedesigns.com/demo_sport_europe.asp I know you aren't in Europe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #16 June 4, 2013 a reserve that opens slower is safer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
