Genie 0 #51 January 17, 2003 Quote Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Saddam is a madman. Saddam wants to kill Americans . Hmm - from an outside perspective it seems a lot of americans get killed by americans.... and a lot of americans seem to want to kill americans..so... ? I mean what - 70% own guns? and what about 3% own passports??? QED - Americans are mad! Well *thats* a surprise! Genie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,150 #52 January 17, 2003 Saddam is a megalomaniac asshole. His sons seem to be worse, and it's directly due to how he raised them. He's clearly a bad man. But he really hasn't shown a lot of action designed to kill Americans, and most of the rhetoric has been responsive rather than initiated. I have a feeling that if we were to leave him strictly alone, he'd not be as much of a threat to America as to his neighbors (after all, it was Kuwait he attacked, and not the US). But he would be a threat to our oil supply, because he doesn't give a shit about our oil supply, except that if he were selling to us it would assure him some income. And folks, Billvon is nowhere close to as far left as you can go, at least based on what he posts here. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genie 0 #53 January 17, 2003 Quote Quote If they treated you like we seem to want to treat Iraq? You'd be shot on the spot; after all, a holster means you're a dangerous madman and copkiller. Quote Actually, we treat Iraq that way because they have financially supported a terrorist plot to assassinate a former president, So has the USA! Now im getting Way inflammatory! Quote attacked a neighboring country unprovoked, So did the USA! Quote used chemical weapons on their minority citizens, ok the USA hasnt done this afaik!! taken threatening actions against US and UK aircraft Quote The USA has done this too! ok it wasnt intentional, but its happened hasnt it? patrolling the no-fly zone, ***openly supported financially terrorist attacks on Israel, The USA has supported terrorist attacks financially - hey they even trained Osaama! and have broken 16 of 17 UN resolutions (still working on the 17th one) placed on them. Quote Ok dunno if the USA has broken any UN resolutions - but im betting they probably have - does the kyoto treaty com under the UN?? Not to mention there are several sources connecting them with the attacks on 9/11. Now we find empty chemical munition rounds that they claim were declared and you say they didn't have to declare. Quote Well - there has never been any doubt that they used chemical weapons - that is a matter or fact. Therefore they would have empties wouldnt they? *** Come on now. It is not the smoking gun yet but you can start easing back on your support of them now. They probably were used to throw confetti at Saddam's last birthday party...... right? BTW - i dont support iraq. I do believe that the country would be better off without Sadaam - if only so they stop being starved by sanctions. Im not anti-america I think that its a great country - and im sad to see it throw out most of the values that made it great. ie Innocent til proven guilty.. i dont want to see America going to war because they 'want' to, irrespective of any morality, any justification etc - i know you say sources have linked iraq to 9/11 - what sources? wheres the evidence? actually where is the evidence that Al quaida were responsible for 9/11 ? ( no i dont think they are innocent of it, but wheres the proof?) The only evidence for that is in American hands - evidence is a word meaning "that which is seen" - but nothing has been seen up front, warts and all. in the World community, instead theres assurances. If WW3 happens then i would really prefer to see it happen because its a last resort, because generally accepted norms of morality and legality are followed and because it has to happen. Not because George Sr was threatened by Iraq - POTUS is a high risk job. If he couldnt stand the heat, he shouldnt have been there.... Anyway - hope it wasnt too inflammatory, just trying to insert some objectivity Genie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genie 0 #54 January 17, 2003 QuoteWe openly _created_ Al Quaeda and gave radical terrorists millions of dollars and tons of money. QuoteThis was not done directly. They_were_not a terrorist group when we were giving them money. Get that through your thick skull. Ok so it wasnt done directly - i doubt sadaam send a personal cheque to the guys he supported - so its ok to support terrorists financially as long as its not direct?? And they WERE a terrorist group - they were targeting Russia and not America - but they WERE terrorists - or does it only count if they engage in terrorist attacks against *your* country? And may i also point out that NORAID (an american fund raising organisation) ferried hundreds upon thousands of dollars to Ireland to the IRA and are so, partly responsible for the deaths of innocent Irish and English people over the last 40 years? Or does that not count either? QuoteI'm getting sick of the "US - god is on our side! We are morally superior!" rhetoric. We're not. That's fine. Get sick as you want. I'm tired of the "blame America first" mentality that you have. You are extremely critical of the government and all of the people that are doing their best to do the right thing. Yet, you are unwilling to give up a high paying job to sacrifice and serve your country and do what you believe is the right thing. That is your decision, but it is extremely hypocritical for you to do nothing but criticize. *** Hey i thought you werent allowed criticise if you didnt Vote, not if you didnt join the military! did you vote Bill? if so you should be allowed to criticise the people who were voted in and who are technically your employees! Isnt that another of Americas great values? Genie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #55 January 17, 2003 Quote think you hit the nail on the head KM, it is obvious that Bill, and a few others, are as far left as one can go when it comes to the current administration. Trust me, I know some people way way way further left than you think Bill is. I was discussing this with someone else on here yesterday. Why is it when someone says something which isn't in agreement with the current administration, they are branded as being on the far left? Personally, I'm pretty much in the middle, from where I sit I can point out people way to the left of me....and way to the right of me I see Bush's policies. It seems to me those of you who are on the far right brand those of us leaning slightly left as radicals, just because we're thinking things through and not blindly playing follow the leader. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #56 January 17, 2003 Quoteused chemical weapons on their minority citizens, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ok the USA hasnt done this afaik!! Not quite....we just seized their property and locked them in internment camps 60 years ago. And currently arrest them and hold them indefinitely without formal charges or access to an attorney. And I guess withholding medical treatment of syphilis from blacks in Tuskegee can't really be considered using biological weapons on them. After all, we didn't infect them. Just told them we were treating them when we really didn't and just studied the progress of the disease instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #57 January 17, 2003 Quote Quote There is nothing that you and I or the Gov't can do that will make him and people like him happy or change their minds on issues like these. But that is his and others right and people like you and I ensure they have that right when they get up each morning. That is the ying and yang of things. Lou, I enlisted and served. I don't know what Bill does or does not do for the US, nor do I care. It is his business. When you throw everyone that casts a wary eye on US actions overseas together as unsupportive of our country, you are generalizing in the worst way. That isn't what I implied or infered, nor would I do that. Even when I was in the military, I watched the news and disagreed with some of what the US did. That has no reflection on my desire to be a citizen, or in my commitment to my military obligation. There were times when I geared up and went to Greenramp for shit I thought was ridiculous. But I'd made a promise and I was prepared to fulfill it. And I am sure you realize that there were reasons and information that you were not privy to that dictated your prescence at Greenramp. We both know that the only thing that rolls down hill is shit.Being a good soldier, or a good citizen does not require blind faith. Educated and informed support of the facets of policy we agree with is more important. The soldier is required to do even the things he does not like. The non-military citizen is not. It is that difference, and the freedom to criticize that helps mold future policy. Civilians can help keep people in the military safer by being gadflies and steering politicians down responsible paths of action, so the lives of soldiers are not thrown away without cause. I agree with you, there must be an equilibrium in everything if we are to remain a Democratic society. There must also be a balance in the rhetoric from both sides. Hearing chicken little scream every time a decision is made by the Gov't gets to be old."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #58 January 17, 2003 Quote That isn't what I implied or infered, nor would I do that. My bad. Quote And I am sure you realize that there were reasons and information that you were not privy to that dictated your prescence at Greenramp. Very true. Sometimes you just don't need to know. Quote there must be an equilibrium in everything if we are to remain a Democratic society. There must also be a balance in the rhetoric from both sides. Once again, heartily agreed. There, that wasn't so bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
