rhino 0 #26 February 10, 2003 Quotethe UN is trying to go a way, without just bombing everything and then asking questions. Say waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #27 February 10, 2003 QuoteAnd a stance to block the _need_ for the contingency i.e. the invasion of Iraq. The two are inextricably linked. France does not want to be part of the invasion. We would do the same. Do you really think we'd vote to use NATO funds to put Patriot missiles along the Pakistani border if Pakistan wanted to invade India? That's not the purpose of NATO. That is incorrect Bill, the planning is not a contingency for invading Iraq from Turkey (vis-a-vis NATO invasion), but to plan how to defend Turkey if Iraq were to attack Turkey. Plans on how/when to deploy troops to Turkey. QuoteAt stake is not actually despatching forces to Turkey, but just the preliminary planning - so as to be ready to do so if war threatens. These forces - mainly air defence units - would not be involved in a war against Iraq, but would protect Turkish territory and airspace against any retaliatory Iraqi threat. QuoteSo? We _gave_ nuclear reactor components to North Korea; we sold Iraq nuclear bomb detonators (pulse neutron sources) and anthrax, botulism and west nile virus. My post also noted -- ~our role not withstanding - as it's been clear~ -- because it appears that the whole world is convinced we were the only tit that Iraq was suckling from, when, in fact, that was not the case. France and Russia were just as indepthly involved.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #28 February 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteWhy is France so adamant about avoiding conflict? 100 Years War 30 Years War War of Spanish Succession War of Austrian Succession Napoleonic Wars Franco-Prussian War 1914-18 1939-45 Bien Dien Phu Look at France's record in these conflicts. While I would initially agree, I believe the reasons are far more arrogant in nature. The French won't acknowledge their roles, or results in these conflicts.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #29 February 11, 2003 Well there's still that pesky little question about what happened to all that VX nerve gas, all that Anthrax and all those "misplaced missiles". Once Hussein answers those questions and gives them up, the Big Dog can lie back down on the porch. Until then, Hussein risks getting bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #30 February 11, 2003 Quote Why is France so adamant about avoiding conflict? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 100 Years War 30 Years War War of Spanish Succession War of Austrian Succession Napoleonic Wars Franco-Prussian War 1914-18 1939-45 Bien Dien Phu Yeah, they are tired of getting their arse kicked. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #31 February 11, 2003 Quote Yeah, they are tired of getting their arse kicked. While the ribbing is fun, you're more on target than you think. The breaking point and real change in French foreign policy occurred when they were forced to decolonize. Indo-China was a very sore spot for them to lose by force, rather than choice. The change in the power structure in the middle east could greatly upset France's plans to de-centralize the government ownership in several sectors, while still maintaining unrealistic socio-economic scales like the 35 hour work week, rigid union labor structure and intense bureaucracy (for its size). The plan is to privatize more of the business sector, while capping income taxes. In order to do this, it requires a steady stream of revenue. France's new best friend, Germany, is part of that economic picture as well (unified currency, defense, etc.). Despite these plans, the budget is still not balanced, and the tax burden is the highest in Europe. France doesn't want to pay for price for participation. Add that to the ruptured ego of decolonization, continued problems in Africa, they don't get their way, regardless of what happens in Iraq, and that pisses them off all the more.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #32 February 11, 2003 One thing I haven't quite figured out yet is why France thinks opposing the war with Iraq diminishes the possibility. If the French, Germans and Russians were as gung-ho as the U.S., Hussein would be more likely to give up his WMD. By continuing to insist on more time for inspections, they have increased the likelyhood a war will occur because Hussein is given hope they will be able to convince America not to strike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #33 February 11, 2003 QuoteOne thing I haven't quite figured out yet is why France thinks opposing the war with Iraq diminishes the possibility. If the French, Germans and Russians were as gung-ho as the U.S., Hussein would be more likely to give up his WMD. By continuing to insist on more time for inspections, they have increased the likelyhood a war will occur because Hussein is given hope they will be able to convince America not to strike. In my original post starting this thread, I provided hyperlinks to several well thought out articles in BBC Online. France's concern is almost purely economic, in relation to Iraq and Germany. By supporting the US policy, they are supporting a regime change too, a prospect which they believe will not assure them continuity of their economic relationship with Iraq. Their agreements are with Hussein, and they're comfortable with that, only God knows why. I believe they are relying a sorely outdated diplomatic strategy with the entire middle east and Africa. They cannot see the forest for the trees. They cannot see that the unrest in Ivory Coast is due to their improper mediation, nor can they see that their policy toward Iraq has now compromised their credibility in NATO. I don't believe that Iraq would give up its weapons even if Germany, France and Russia were more vocal for it. Remember, Hussein didn't believe that the US could pull off the coalition in 1991. In fact, he was surprised by the world reaction to his invasion of Kuwait, especially the USA's. We weren't just giving him weapons, we were doing the Iran-Contra thing during the entire Iran/Iraq war. We were playing these two off each other. So add confusion to Saddam's already f*ck*d up thinking and you have someone without a realistic grasp on reality. Remember the "mother of all battles" ? Russia has been relatively quiet lately, and I believe that is because they have received assurance their outstanding debt owed by Iraq (a cool $8B+) would be settled promptly in a post-Saddam era.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #34 February 11, 2003 Hi there, While the Germans & Belgians are refusing to have any involvement in the forthcoming Iraq war / police action, France has in fact gone a step further and there's the possibility that they'll send militaty advisers to Iraq. This is in fact a good thing given La Belle france's proud military tradition, particularly their modern tendency to surrender fast as feck. Remember that "The 100 years War" is really known as "Le Peau des 100 annes" in France. Early news reports indicate that Five hundred soldiers from the "L'Abandonnement du Field d'Honneur Battalion" (French Surrender Battalion) of the Franch army are in the process of shipping out to Iraq where they will assist the elite Iraqi Republican Guards in their inevitable surrender to the overwhelming might of the American Armed Forces. In addition, 3000 advisors from the elite "Force du Collaborateur Francaise" are on 12 hour (24 bottles of red wine) notice to ship out to assist the Iraqis in collaborating with the Americans while pretending to be part of a non-existent resistance movement. Their secondary function will be to teach the Iraqis to be rude & ill mannered to the American & British forces - a technique perfected by the French as far back as 1944. Incidentally, for France WWII wasn't 1939-1945, it was more 08/1939 - 05/1940, at least as allies, then it was 05/1940 - 12/1944 as Axis, then 12/1944-05/1945 as allies again. The saying "Lucky Pierre has your back" is NOT in fact a term indicating safety and expressing admiration for the French military. Mike. (removes togue from cheek)[;P] Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #35 February 11, 2003 Mike, That was absolutely hilarious. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #36 February 11, 2003 Bravo mon vieux! -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #37 February 11, 2003 That was good Mike... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #38 February 11, 2003 Oh stop!! My sides hurt. JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #39 February 11, 2003 That's great! -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #40 February 12, 2003 Heh, heh... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #41 February 12, 2003 Hi Bob, thanks for the French.jpg.... If you have it bigger I'd appreciate one to print up to poster size. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wilmshurst 0 #42 February 12, 2003 The only thing worse than a cold toilet seat is a warm toilet seat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jayhfx 0 #43 February 12, 2003 just to let you know, making fun of other countries is not helping your cause. This board is filled with alot of nationalities who may take offence. Other countries policies on situations are almost always varied and believe it or not different that of others. Try to be more tolerant to others and you may find people are more tolerant of your views. peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
