Kerry Implodes ????

[billvon 2,435]

>He was found "Not guilty" he was never found innocent.

They are one in the same in our system of justice. Being found not guilty of any crime means you didn't do it, period, and cannot be treated even one little bit like you did do it. Cops can't take away your car. They can't put you in jail for just a few days. You are innocent under the law.

>Get off it Bill, you can't really believe that crap.

I hope you do believe that crap, because our justice system requires you to.

There is a very strong desire among conservatives to have the best possible whipping boy, and Clinton is a great one, because he's dishonest and sleazy. But all the wishing in the world will not change the fact that the impeachment failed, and he was not censured or removed from office. It doesn't make him any less sleazy, but it does make him (under our laws) innocent.

You have your pick of justice systems througout the world. I like the US's. You may not; that's fine.

[Ron 7]

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Actually the subject was Kerry, but as usual, the right wingers have to compare everyone and everything to Clinton. It reminds me of how the Church Lady from SNL is always going on about Satan.

And how the lefties got a few shots in of GWB lying, even though they have no proof of it?

But we have proof good old Clinton lied...Or that he "tried to tell the truth but failed". Brought to you by the same folks that needed "sex" and "is" explained to them.

So just to sum things up....
Clinton DID lie. (We have proof)
Kerry MAY have had an affair. (We don't have proof)
Bush MAY have lied about WMD's (You don't have proof.)

But since you are more than willing to say that Bush did lie without proof...You would have to be stupid to think that others are not going to do the same with Kerry....Once again..Pick a set of rules and play by them.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

WHO FREAKIN' CARES??? HE'S NOT IN OFFICE AND CAN'T DO ANYMORE HARM!!!!

GWB continues to harm us though. Sorry for shouting but really.....who gives a flying fuck about Clinton, besides those who use comparisons to him to defend GWB?

[benny 0]

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But since you are more than willing to say that Bush did lie without proof...You would have to be stupid to think that others are not going to do the same with Kerry....Once again..Pick a set of rules and play by them.

We have proof that at the very least a government agent appointed by Bush lied:

Rumsfeld on WMD:

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We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Ron 7]

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Maybe I'm wierd, but I'm far more interested in how a president runs the economy of the nation than in his sex life.

I'd like someone who acts consistently with what he tells us he's gonna do.

But what if they are know to lie?

Then how can you tell if they are lying when they say the will do things?

Sleeping with someone other than your wife and lying about it says something to me abaout a guys character

Also he claims that soldiers did really bad things in Vietnam...But he claims to be proud of serving...

So is he proud of doing horrible deeds?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Michele 1]

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WHO FREAKIN' CARES??? HE'S NOT IN OFFICE AND CAN'T DO ANYMORE HARM!!!!

Shhhhhhh.....

He did plenty of harm while he was in office....and we are still addressing his crap to this day. Part of the issue, for me at least, is that the mess he made others are cleaning up, and are being blamed for. It'd be laughable, if it weren't so problematic.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[SkydiverRick 0]

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But since you are more than willing to say that Bush did lie without proof...You would have to be stupid to think that others are not going to do the same with Kerry....Once again..Pick a set of rules and play by them.

We have proof that at the very least a government agent appointed by Bush lied:

Rumsfeld on WMD:

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We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

Talk about McCarthyism. You guys want to hang a Republican no matter who it is.

never pull low......unless you are

[Ron 7]

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WHO FREAKIN' CARES??? HE'S NOT IN OFFICE AND CAN'T DO ANYMORE HARM!!!!

BECAUSE YOU FOLKS KEEP SAYING SHIT YOU CAN'T BACK UP.

If Bush is suspected of something...Then you act as if he is ALREADY guilty...Then you DEFEND Clintons actions.

Jesus folks pick a set of rules and play by them...ONE SET, NOT TWO...ONE FOR EACH POLITICAL PARTY.

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GWB continues to harm us though

PROVE THIS!!!! You can't.....Hate to break it to you, but things like 9/11 were being planned during Clintons time. The 1st WTC bombing happend on Clintons watch...and he did fuck all about it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 1,649]

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But since you are more than willing to say that Bush did lie without proof...You would have to be stupid to think that others are not going to do the same with Kerry....Once again..Pick a set of rules and play by them.

We have proof that at the very least a government agent appointed by Bush lied:

Rumsfeld on WMD:

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We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.

Talk about McCarthyism. You guys want to hang a Republican no matter who it is.

Trying to divert attention away from the lie?

What part of what Rumsfeld said was the truth?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 7]

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We have proof that at the very least a government agent appointed by Bush lied:

OK

#1. That is not the same as Bush lying.
#2. Remember the world is flat. Or atleast that what folks thought back 300 years ago...That does not make them liars...It just makes them wrong.

So all the quote proves is that Rummy was wrong..Not that he lied. To have alie you have to be able to prove he knew one thing, and said another...

Case in point Clinton ADMITTED he lied...Or you can prove it any other way you want..

But you have not PROVEN Rummy or GWB2 lied. You MIGHT be able to show that they made a mistake...But you have not proven they lied.

How hard is that to understand?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkydiverRick 0]

Talk about McCarthyism. You guys want to hang a Republican no matter who it is.

[kallend 1,649]

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Sleeping with someone other than your wife and lying about it says something to me abaout a guys character

First you say he might have lied, now you say he did lie. Which is it?

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Also he claims that soldiers did really bad things in Vietnam...But he claims to be proud of serving...

So is he proud of doing horrible deeds?

You claim to be proud of being American, but John Wayne Gacy, Jeff Dahlmer, Ted Bundy and Tim McVeigh did really bad things while being American.

So how do you reconcile your pride in being American with these horrible deeds?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,649]

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Talk about McCarthyism. You guys want to hang a Republican no matter who it is.

Trying to divert attention away from the lie?

What part of what Rumsfeld said was the truth?

[Ron 7]

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Sleeping with someone other than your wife and lying about it says something to me abaout a guys character

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First you say he might have lied, now you say he did lie. Which is it?

I have not convicted him...Unlike you and your claims of GWB and WMD's. If he cares to PROVE he is innocent, I will gladly listen.

And that is a general statement...Doing that does bring questions about a guys character. Even the hint of it does...And there is more than a hint of it with Kerry.

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You claim to be proud of being American, but John Wayne Gacy, Jeff Dahlmer, Ted Bundy and Tim McVeigh did really bad things while being American.

So how do you reconcile your pride in being American with these horrible deeds?

Simple...I'm not them. And they were all brought to justice.

How can you bash a country that you choose to live in every chance you get?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkydiverRick 0]

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Talk about McCarthyism. You guys want to hang a Republican no matter who it is.

Trying to divert attention away from the lie?

What part of what Rumsfeld said was the truth?

What part was a lie?

[benny 0]

He would have been just wrong if he had said, we think we know where they are, but he didn't say that, he said he knew.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Michele 1]

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You claim to be proud of being American, but John Wayne Gacy, Jeff Dahlmer, Ted Bundy and Tim McVeigh did really bad things while being American.

So how do you reconcile your pride in being American with these horrible deeds?

Intentional obtuscity again (I know, I made that word up....)

Kerry either is proud of his deeds in VN, or lied to stir up the emotions of people. He either agreed with the purporteed American policies, or in fact they were not a matter of course, and he exaggerated them for effect...

The poster did not murder ala Gacy, Dahmer, Bundy, and had no part in the McVeigh situation. He has nothing to be proud or not proud of in this regards, whereas Kerry has a conflict one way or the other.

BTW, MarkH, I appreciate your post. Seems there really isn't too much going on if someone gets released from service early, if they're not needed. Interesting how the left is trying to make Bush look bad because he left early to attend school. Either way, I don't think it's terribly pertinent on either one's part. Thanks for settling that for me.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[SkydiverRick 0]

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He would have been just wrong if he had said, we think we know where they are, but he didn't say that, he said he knew.

What does "is" mean?

never pull low......unless you are

[benny 0]

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#1. That is not the same as Bush lying.

How about...

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The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.

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But the CIA official has said that a former US diplomat had already established the claim was false in March 2002 - and that the information had been passed on to government departments, including the White House, well before Mr Bush mentioned it in the speech.

Oh, I guess maybe that wasn't a lie, since he attributed it to the Britich government and didn't say "I learned..."

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[kallend 1,649]

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Talk about McCarthyism. You guys want to hang a Republican no matter who it is.

Trying to divert attention away from the lie?

What part of what Rumsfeld said was the truth?

What part was a lie?

You aren't stupid, so don't pretend to be stupid.

[quade 3]

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Kerry either is proud of his deeds in VN, or lied to stir up the emotions of people. He either agreed with the purporteed American policies, or in fact they were not a matter of course, and he exaggerated them for effect...

To me this doesn't make total sense.

Let's say G.I. Joe goes off to find Osama Bin Laden in Afganistan.

He's going off to fight what we all think is a just cause. At some point in time, he sees a bunch of his buddies get blown to bits and a little later he gets re-assigned to Iraq and sees even more of his buddies getting blown up.

When he comes back to the U.S. can he not be both proud of what he did, yet horrified and against it?

Further, unless we were in his place and had gone through his experiences, who the fuck are we to question it?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[benny 0]

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He would have been just wrong if he had said, we think we know where they are, but he didn't say that, he said he knew.

What does "is" mean?

There we ago again. Yep Cinton lied and said silly things trying to hide his affairs. I'll admit that. Now, can you be a man and admit that it's painfully obvious that several members of the current administration were either lying or just plain incompetent with regards to the WMD issue in Iraq?

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[SkydiverRick 0]

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#1. That is not the same as Bush lying.

How about...

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The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.

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But the CIA official has said that a former US diplomat had already established the claim was false in March 2002 - and that the information had been passed on to government departments, including the White House, well before Mr Bush mentioned it in the speech.

Oh, I guess maybe that wasn't a lie, since he attributed it to the Britich government and didn't say "I learned..."

Try to stay consistent Benny. Above, it was all about the way that Rumsfeld worded it. Now you want to discount how Bush worded his speech. Use logic instead of emotion, it'll be easier to stay consistent.

never pull low......unless you are

[Ron 7]

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He would have been just wrong if he had said, we think we know where they are, but he didn't say that, he said he knew.

Again all the people that "knew" the world was flat are liars?

How about all the folks that "knew" that fire was an element that was released from materials?

No, you can have say the truth about somethings and it can be wrong.

And you can't PROVE he lied...You might be able to prove he was wrong.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkydiverRick 0]

Now, can you be a man and admit that it's painfully obvious that several members of the current administration were either lying or just plain incompetent with regards to the WMD issue in Iraq?