this SUCKS! fear in my own home(long)

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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There is one very simple rule that ALWAYS applies when it comes to pulling a gun; If you pull it, you better be prepared to use it. And that includes killing someone with it.

I agree with this statement whole-heartedly. But it does not address what I was talking about.

Remember, I said this:

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One reason I feel that this danger is being overstated is the fact that many perps will flee at the presentation of a gun. Some won't, but many will.

My point is that I figure that many people who might not have had the guts to pull the trigger probably never find out that they could not have, because before it even comes down to that, the presence of the gun pointed at them sends the attackers fleeing.

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And as far as statistics go: Guns kept in the home for self protection are 22 times more likely to be used to kill someone you know than they are to kill in self-defense (New England Journal of Medicine 1997)

You are no doubt citing what is now a THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED, FLAWED STUDY by Dr. Arthur Kellerman who is an anti-gun activist and was funded by the anti-gun Centers for Disease Control, which looks not to find out IF guns are good or bad for citizens, but looks specifically to gather "proof" that they ARE bad.

Kellerman's "22 times" study has not only been cited innumerable times with VARYING numbers in place of "22," (it started out as 43, which makes me wonder where you got 22...), it has been shredded by scholars and researchers, for reasons not least of which include the fact that Kellerman NEVER SUBMITTED HIS RESEARCH DATA FOR PEER REVIEW.

I advise you to discontinue citing his so-called "study." It amounts to only so much agenda-drive CRAP.

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Simply owning a gun does nothing to guarantee your protection, as a matter of fact, just owning a gun actually increases your chances of death by foul play. If perps can kill cops with their own guns like this Clicky, you can be damned sure they can take it way from the untrained with much less effort.

You are failing to recognize SERIOUS differences in the types of interactions with perps that exist between cops and homeowners/civilians. I wouldn't doubt that many of the "cop killed with own gun" scenarios occur because a wrestling match/brawl ensues during the attempt to apprehend and handcuff a suspect. This is an unlikely scenario to occur with a homeowner and a home invader. I'd imagine it's more of a situation where you'd either be shooting him or he'd be fleeing, but not that you order him to kneel with his ankles crossed, hands on his head, and you try to handcuff him, at which time he turns and tackles you, overpowers you, gets your gun and shoots you.

Let's not pretend that police actions are so similar to home defense in this respect.

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You are sadly mistaken if you think that the simple act of pulling a gun is going to save your ass in a critical situation.

And you are misrepresenting my belief on the subject if that is where you think I am coming from.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[ladyskydiver 0]

Hey...PJ...please don't get this moved to SC, k?

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[moodyskydiver 0]

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Hey...PJ...please don't get this moved to SC, k?

Thanks Cora, I had a feeling it was headed that way.

Another update: AggieDave and his sweeter, better half Morgan dropped by my apartment today.We went through some basic things specific for my apartment and theres more to come at the gun range on Tues.I'm so thankful I have such a group of friends so willing to help.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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If your current home and your parents' home are both in Texas, there are no legal obstacles to transporting the pistol--It doesn't even have to be unloaded (having a pistol in your car during legitimate travel is excluded from concealed carry laws

Do not get caught traveling with a loaded or unloaded pistol without a CCL in Texas. If no license, break it down and lock it up.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

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[Douva 0]

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If your current home and your parents' home are both in Texas, there are no legal obstacles to transporting the pistol--It doesn't even have to be unloaded (having a pistol in your car during legitimate travel is excluded from concealed carry laws

Do not get caught traveling with a loaded or unloaded pistol without a CCL in Texas. If no license, break it down and lock it up.

I don't know what you're basing that statement on, Cloudseeker2001, but Texas Penal Code section 46.15, subsection (b)(3), clearly states that Texas Penal Code section 46.02 ("A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club,") "does not apply to a person who is traveling."

I have included the full texts of these two sections of the Texas Penal Code, below:

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person
commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly
carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or
issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and
46.03 do not apply to:
(1) peace officers, including commissioned peace
officers of a recognized state, or special investigators under
Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section
prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a
weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state
serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the
officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;
(2) parole officers and neither section prohibits an
officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the
officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
(B) in compliance with policies and procedures
adopted by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice regarding the
possession of a weapon by an officer while on duty;
(3) community supervision and corrections department
officers appointed or employed under Section 76.004, Government
Code, and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a
weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the
officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
(B) authorized to carry a weapon under Section
76.0051, Government Code;
(4) a judge or justice of the supreme court, the court
of criminal appeals, a court of appeals, a district court, a
criminal district court, a constitutional county court, a statutory
county court, a justice court, or a municipal court who is licensed
to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code; or
(5) an honorably retired peace officer or federal
criminal investigator who holds a certificate of proficiency issued
under Section 1701.357, Occupations Code, and is carrying a photo
identification that:
(A) verifies that the officer honorably retired
after not less than 20 years of service as a commissioned officer;
and
(B) is issued by the agency from which the peace
officer retired or, for a federal criminal investigator, by a state
law enforcement agency.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:


Text of subd. (b)(1) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,
§ 4

(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a
member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by
Section 431.001, Government Code, or as an employee of a penal
institution who is performing a security function;


Text of subd. (b)(1) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261,
§ 28

(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a
member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by
Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal
institution;
(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);
(3) is traveling;


Text of subd. (b)(4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,
§ 4

(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other
sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is
conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's
residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;


Text of subd. (b)(4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261,
§ 28

(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other
sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is
conducted, or is directly en route between the premises and the
actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the
activity;
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the
Texas Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies,
if:
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of
the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from
the person's place of assignment;
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform;
and
(C) the weapon is in plain view;
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid
license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry
a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person
is carrying;
(7) holds a security officer commission and a personal
protection authorization issued by the Texas Board of Private
Investigators and Private Security Agencies and who is providing
personal protection under the Private Investigators and Private
Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil
Statutes); or
(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or
is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or
license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted
or licensed premises.
(c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying
of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an
institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar
club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use
of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use
of the club for nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this
subsection, "nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable
force, not intended and not likely to inflict bodily injury.
(d) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the
carrying of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public
security officer employed by the adjutant general under Section
431.029, Government Code, in performance of official duties or
while traveling to or from a place of duty.
(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the
carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying
a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a
ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the
performance of the ceremony.
(f) Section 46.03(a)(6) does not apply to a person who
possesses a firearm or club while in the actual discharge of
official duties as:
(1) a member of the armed forces or state military
forces, as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code; or
(2) an employee of a penal institution.


Text of subsec. (g) as added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 421, § 1

(g) For the purpose of Subsection (b)(2), "premises"
includes a recreational vehicle that is being used by the person
carrying the handgun, illegal knife, or club as living quarters,
regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this
subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily
designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains
temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor
vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer,
truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.


Text of subsec. (g) as added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 795, § 1

(g) In this section, "recognized state" means another state
with which the attorney general of this state, with the approval of
the governor of this state, negotiated an agreement after
determining that the other state:
(1) has firearm proficiency requirements for peace
officers; and
(2) fully recognizes the right of peace officers
commissioned in this state to carry weapons in the other state.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

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[cloudseeker2001 0]

Maybe you should get your pistol and drive around the state(if you like) and when you get pulled over tell the cop that you have a loaded pistol and inform him it is lawful because you are traveling.

I think "premises" is the key word here, most people do not use RV's for primary vehicles.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[moodyskydiver 0]

Thanks for the specific info. Arguing over the legality is a rather moot point at this time since I've already moved the gun so can we please not turn this into a gun debate?Theres alot of good advice here that people can still take advantage of if we can avoid getting this tossed to the hyenas in SC.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[cloudseeker2001 0]

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[jumprunner 0]

Ummm, I looked up your profile, and, you live in Huntsville? Somehow this incident doesnt surprise me. An incident like this in East Texas wouldnt surprise me, but especially not Huntsville.

Im from East Texas originally and right now temporarily living in downtown San Diego till I find a better job and place to live, but I see less crime there than I ever had in Houston. More nut cases and bums, definitely, but less crime like the one you are reporting.

I dont know, maybe its time for a move?

[Douva 0]

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Maybe you should get your pistol and drive around the state(if you like) and when you get pulled over tell the cop that you have a loaded pistol and inform him it is lawful because you are traveling.

A. You don't have to tell the officer you have a pistol in the car, unless you have a CHL.
B. If you are engaged in legitimate travel, you are legally justified in having a pistol in your car (loaded or unloaded). Nowhere in the Texas Penal Code does it say anything about a gun having to be unloaded or locked.
C. Contrary to what many people believe, most law enforcement officers are not looking for an excuse to "bust" law abiding citizens.

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I think "premises" is the key word here, most people do not use RV's for primary vehicles.

You're confusing two different subsections. Nowhere in subsection (b)(3) is the word "premises" used.

To everyone who's paranoid about this thread getting moved to the Speakers Corner, relax. This is a calm, mature, intelligent discussion about how citizens can legally protect themselves. We can't be expected to have an intelligent discussion about methods of self defense if we're not allowed to dispel misinformation. Unless somebody looses his or her cool or turns this into a debate of ideals, I don't see any reason it should be moved.

Blue skies,

Douva

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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Maybe you should get your pistol and drive around the state(if you like) and when you get pulled over tell the cop that you have a loaded pistol and inform him it is lawful because you are traveling.

A. You don't have to tell the officer you have a pistol in the car, unless you have a CHL.
B. If you are engaged in legitimate travel, you are legally justified in having a pistol in your car (loaded or unloaded). Nowhere in the Texas Penal Code does it say anything about a gun having to be unloaded or locked.
C. Contrary to what many people believe, most law enforcement officers are not looking for an excuse to "bust" law abiding citizens.

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I think "premises" is the key word here, most people do not use RV's for primary vehicles.

You're confusing two different subsections. Nowhere in subsection (b)(3) is the word "premises" used.

To everyone who's paranoid about this thread getting moved to the Speakers Corner, relax. This is a calm, mature, intelligent discussion about how citizens can legally protect themselves. We can't be expected to have an intelligent discussion about methods of self defense if we're not allowed to dispel misinformation. Unless somebody looses his or her cool or turns this into a debate of ideals, I don't see any reason it should be moved.

Blue skies,

Douva

I would not chance my freedom on the word "traveling" and how it may be defined by any one law enforcement entity. There are many briefs concerning this topic dating back to 1881(Rice vs. State). When a person gets arrested for possession of a firearm, it is then up to that person to prove his innocence....I used to think the same way as you.
Take a CCH class or read The Texas Gun Owners Guide for a practical idea of how the gun laws are applied. The idea of using "traveling" as a excuse for the possession of a handgun most probably will not get you off the hook. But if you insist, good luck.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[Douva 0]

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I would not chance my freedom on the word "traveling" and how it may be defined by any one law enforcement entity. There are many briefs concerning this topic dating back to 1881(Rice vs. State). When a person gets arrested for possession of a firearm, it is then up to that person to prove his innocence....I used to think the same way as you.
Take a CCH class or read The Texas Gun Owners Guide for a practical idea of how the gun laws are applied. The idea of using "traveling" as a excuse for the possession of a handgun most probably will not get you off the hook. But if you insist, good luck.

I don't suggest anyone try to use "traveling" as an excuse to try to sidestep concealed carry laws because you'll probably end up with a Class "A" Misdemeanor on your record, but Texans and people traveling through Texas shouldn't be afraid of utilizing the rights granted them by the Texas Penal Code.

--Douva

PS. I don't "insist" on doing anything. I have a CHL. I was simply trying to pass on what the Texas Penal Code says about traveling. Unless you want this thread to be moved to Speakers Corner, quit trying to make it so personal.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Nightingale 0]

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I know other people have expressed that I should add other locks etc but due to a clause in my lease stating that the apartment authorities are authorized to enter my apartment at any time and therefore have a key I am not allowed to change the locks or add locks b/c thats would violate the lease by barring them from the premises.

add locks, and give management a key. Buy a really good quality deadbolt and replace the one you've got, and give management a key.