Sell a questionable canopy??

[beatcreation 0]

To give the situation some context I will explain what happened. I purchased a used f-111 canopy which was manufactured in 2002 and is in very good physical appearance. I jumped it 4 times the first three times the canopy opened slightly hard but about what I would expect from an f-111 canopy ( I have no experience with f-111, basing my observations on what I have heard). The 4th however slammed me real good. I was not able to jump for about 3 weeks and had a tough time getting around. I believe that the opening could have very well have been due to the way it was packed. I believe this canopy to be less forgiving to packing blunders. I have since then purchased a new canopy which I have fallen in love with.

Here comes my actual question. I obviously would like to recoup some of the cost from purchasing this canopy in the first place and I would hate to see a canopy go to waste especially with the appearance and condition that it appears to be in but do I sell this canopy? I would like to post it for sale with an explanation of what happened to me and see if someone is interested in trying to salvage this canopy, maybe fixing it or just learning to pack it correctly. I would just hate to sell the canopy even with a disclaimer and then find out that something happens to the buyer using it. I know that a disclaimer would put more of the responsibility on the purchaser but I would still feel bad.

What does everyone think????

[BillyVance 34]

What kind and size is the canopy? 2002 is not all that old, depending on how many jumps it has.

It's quite possible that you weren't packing it for optimum openings, as there are certain canopies that need extra attention in the pack job.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[beatcreation 0]

Flight Concepts 9 Cell F111 With dacron lines and around 280 Jumps on it. Lines appear to be in good shape and material is in very good condition. Lands Surprising well for the style of canopy.

[hajnalka 0]

To the OP:

In my opinion, ANY canopy can open hard, based on MANY variables. I have seen a Spectre open hard enough to cause canopy damage and injury (we suspect slider was not fully un-collapsed when packed.)

As a rigger and used gear seller, I wouldn't hesitate to sell this canopy as long as you feel the buyer fully understands what he/she is getting. Anymore I steer people away from F111 mains, but know a few newer jumpers who have greatly mastered canopy control because it's all they could afford at the time. As ever, wingloading is a huge factor.

I have had experienced jumpers reject new or used Spectres, Sabre 2s, and especially Icarus canopies because they just opened too slowly for the jumper's comfort level.

I no longer jump, but did AFF on a 7-cell F111 Sharpchuter that opened so hard I had permament bruises around my thighs and shoulders. I cringed when pulling. I feel your pain

Basically, if your 9-cell FC canopy is in good shape, it should be perfect for someone and some purpose out there. Kudos to you for having a conscience when selling used gear.

Best,
Dawn

[beatcreation 0]

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To the OP:

As a rigger and used gear seller, I wouldn't hesitate to sell this canopy as long as you feel the buyer fully understands what he/she is getting. Anymore I steer people away from F111 mains, but know a few newer jumpers who have greatly mastered canopy control because it's all they could afford at the time. As ever, wingloading is a huge factor.

Dawn

Thanks Dawn, I would agree that I wouldn't hesitate too long to sell this canopy if I was upfront about it to the seller. I believe that it could be easily managed or fixed and I think like you mentioned that a new jumper with little bank could benefit from the affordability of this canopy. Thats why I purchased it in the first place.

[tdog 0]

I say you can ethically sell ANYTHING for ANY PRICE in the free market economy, so as long as you disclose accurately what you are selling, and you have a willing and able buyer.

[Broke 0]

my canopy is 20 years old f111 and it feels good to me when it opens. The only problems I have had with it were packing malfunctions and I have since then become a much better packer.
Are you packing it or is someone else packing it?

Have you thought about putting a larger slider on it or put a pocket on the slider

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[peek 20]

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Flight Concepts 9 Cell F111 With dacron lines and around 280 Jumps on it. Lines appear to be in good shape and material is in very good condition. Lands Surprising well for the style of canopy.

Depending on its condition and price, my friend may very well want to buy it from you, because he jumps canopies like this and is familiar with them. Contact me if you want to sell it.

[beatcreation 0]

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my canopy is 20 years old f111 and it feels good to me when it opens. The only problems I have had with it were packing malfunctions and I have since then become a much better packer.
Are you packing it or is someone else packing it?

Have you thought about putting a larger slider on it or put a pocket on the slider

I packed 1 of the first three with an ok opening but not the last one which I got slammed on.

It does have a pocket slider.

[beatcreation 0]

peek I sent you a pm

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Chances are it's not the canopy design that caused the slammer. More likley causes are poor packing, poor body position (dumping in a track or hard arch), mismatched canopy and container size, line dump due to loose stows, oversized pilot chute, plain bad luck, or a combination of several of the above. Very occasionally, and individual canopy of a normally excellent design will also be a repeat slammer for no apparent reason.

I have seen nearly every canopy design slam the hell out of somebody. I've seen a jedei open so hard it broke the sight off a camera helmet. I've seen a single Diablo blow up 3 times in 2 years. I've seen a Sabre2 cause whiplash, and another one break a riser. There was an old-school sabre that opened so hard it killed somebody a few years ago. Canopies of every design have left massive inner thigh bruising on people. it happens.

I wouldn't hesitate to sell.... on the other hand, I'd not hesitate to continue jumping it either, though I'd ensure the canopy/bag/container are compatable, possibly get a smaller PC, and ensure good, tight linestows. And NEVER dump in a track... my only two insanely brutal openings were a direct result of dumping in a track.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[beatcreation 0]

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Chances are it's not the canopy design that caused the slammer. More likley causes are poor packing, poor body position (dumping in a track or hard arch), mismatched canopy and container size, line dump due to loose stows, oversized pilot chute, plain bad luck, or a combination of several of the above. Very occasionally, and individual canopy of a normally excellent design will also be a repeat slammer for no apparent reason.

I have seen nearly every canopy design slam the hell out of somebody. I've seen a jedei open so hard it broke the sight off a camera helmet. I've seen a single Diablo blow up 3 times in 2 years. I've seen a Sabre2 cause whiplash, and another one break a riser. There was an old-school sabre that opened so hard it killed somebody a few years ago. Canopies of every design have left massive inner thigh bruising on people. it happens.

I wouldn't hesitate to sell.... on the other hand, I'd not hesitate to continue jumping it either, though I'd ensure the canopy/bag/container are compatable, possibly get a smaller PC, and ensure good, tight linestows. And NEVER dump in a track... my only two insanely brutal openings were a direct result of dumping in a track.

I agree it could have been any of the above reasons I am by no means bashing the canopy design or the manufacturer. My reason for posting this was due to the fact that I decided not to keep jumping it and thus was not able to nail down the root cause of the hard opening. I received my tax return and was then able to by a new canopy which I was not previously able to.

[Gawain 0]

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To give the situation some context I will explain what happened. I purchased a used f-111 canopy which was manufactured in 2002 and is in very good physical appearance. I jumped it 4 times the first three times the canopy opened slightly hard but about what I would expect from an f-111 canopy ( I have no experience with f-111, basing my observations on what I have heard).

Based on what you're describing here, and stated lack of experience, I'm going to submit that it may be packing error (?). Were you rolling the nose and fully quartering the slider?

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but do I sell this canopy?

Sure. If you state the canopy type, material, condition and sell it for whatever the market will bear. No issue.

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I know that a disclaimer would put more of the responsibility on the purchaser but I would still feel bad.

There is already a disclaimer on the data plate.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[BillyVance 34]

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To give the situation some context I will explain what happened. I purchased a used f-111 canopy which was manufactured in 2002 and is in very good physical appearance. I jumped it 4 times the first three times the canopy opened slightly hard but about what I would expect from an f-111 canopy ( I have no experience with f-111, basing my observations on what I have heard).

Based on what you're describing here, and stated lack of experience, I'm going to submit that it may be packing error (?). Were you rolling the nose and fully quartering the slider?

Quote

but do I sell this canopy?

Sure. If you state the canopy type, material, condition and sell it for whatever the market will bear. No issue.

Quote

I know that a disclaimer would put more of the responsibility on the purchaser but I would still feel bad.

There is already a disclaimer on the data plate.

Yeah, something like skydiving is dangerous and can result in serious injury or death or something?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[beatcreation 0]

Quote

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To give the situation some context I will explain what happened. I purchased a used f-111 canopy which was manufactured in 2002 and is in very good physical appearance. I jumped it 4 times the first three times the canopy opened slightly hard but about what I would expect from an f-111 canopy ( I have no experience with f-111, basing my observations on what I have heard).

Based on what you're describing here, and stated lack of experience, I'm going to submit that it may be packing error (?). Were you rolling the nose and fully quartering the slider?

Quote

but do I sell this canopy?

Sure. If you state the canopy type, material, condition and sell it for whatever the market will bear. No issue.

Quote

I know that a disclaimer would put more of the responsibility on the purchaser but I would still feel bad.

There is already a disclaimer on the data plate.

Yep it probably was packing error I packed several openings on this canopy that were acceptable openings and then the hard opening was some one else packing.

[DougH 270]

Look I will be nice guy and take it off your hands for you. Having jumped a hornet for 200 some jumps I am highly experinced with canopies that abuse you. Then you won't have to worry about harming the innocent.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P