gofast_ER 0 #1 June 13, 2006 We are about to go on block leave. It starts on the 17th. We are being told that we have to show up to formation that morning at 0600. But, if we have already signed out at 1200 am they can't make us be in formation can they? Oh yeah, leave is 3 weeks. Have to be back by july 7th. They are also telling us we have a recall formation at 1500 on the 7th. But, we can sign in at anytime on the 7th. So, can they really do that? A lot of us are pissed about this and have agreed that we werent going to be in formation for these days. Can our unit do anything to us for not being there?I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #2 June 13, 2006 It has been a few years, but when I was on leave and my leave slip was signed for that day I didnt do a damn thing until about 23:50 the night I was supposed to sign in. If your leave is approved thru the 7th then I wouldnt show up. They can have all the formations they want. Now if they called one at 00:01 on the 8th, you might want to make an a showing on that one.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #3 June 13, 2006 PM sentMy photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #4 June 13, 2006 Ex military but unless the UCMJ has drastically changed.... Yes...they can do that. You have asshats telling you you have to do that but yes, they can. Where does it say that your leave HAS TO start 1 minute after midnight on "the day"? Where does it say that your leave HAS TO end at midnight on "the day". Sorry to say this but somebody's screwing with you. Mass disobedience is not the answer. I suggest getting and studying a copy of the UCMJ.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gofast_ER 0 #5 June 13, 2006 That's EXACTLY what we are all saying. I mean hell, we could really just stand their at the battilon and wait till 23:59:59. As long as we can all sign our names in that one second. Well, we have made up our minds on not being there. Im just wondering if they can actually get us on this one.I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #6 June 13, 2006 the reg's say it.the leave forms says it. at least the ones we use does. it asks when you want your leqave to start. therule of thumb is always enter 0001 of the day you are leaving. than you have a "last day of chargable leave" if the day of chargeable leave is the 7th than you have until the end of the duty day onthe 7th. now if your duty day is over at 4pm and they call you at 5pm thats a different gray line.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stitch 0 #7 June 13, 2006 Things have probably changed a bit since the Great War."No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #8 June 13, 2006 QuoteThings have probably changed a bit since the Great War. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I heard General Washington could be an asshole sometimes.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gofast_ER 0 #9 June 13, 2006 ow. Well considering I already have my airline tickets booked I don't see how im going to make this 0600 formation. OR the recall on the 7th. But hell, im about to be deployed for a year. I'll take the counseling or whatever it is they want to do to me. I seriously doubt I would get an article 15 for this. It is the army though so who knows.I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #10 June 13, 2006 is this ;eave that is charged to you/ or is it an extended pass? if it is a pass then they can get you to come back, if not then you are good untll your leave ends.... well, unless they call you up and tell you your leave is cut short (which they can, but to do that and it not be ww3 is them being assholes) and f yo didn't know you can also work the system to get free leave time and be in the clear.. say you work all day friday but want to fly out on friday night. well you can start your leave after your duty day and it won't count against you saturday is your first day of chargable leave or if you worka normal monday to friday schedule then you can start leave on saturday and sunday is your first day of charge able leave, but you will still beabl;e to (leave the local area)..... don't know if it is a diffrent form you use in the army compared to the airforce ( i think we usee a dd form i can't remeber as i'm in the reserves now and don't get leave) but it actually explains it pretty good if you get to actually readding the form.... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gofast_ER 0 #11 June 13, 2006 It's block leave. We are being charged for this leave time. which makes it more screwed that they are telling us we can't sign out and go right away.I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #12 June 13, 2006 don't know what "block leave" is ... explain.... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gofast_ER 0 #13 June 13, 2006 ah, well we are being deployed soon so they have "block leave" for the whole unit. Meaning that whoever puts in for leave will get it accepted. So long as you are not pending UCMJ or anything like that.I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #14 June 13, 2006 ahhh... the airforce does that when we come back from deployments... i understand now..... all i can say is this... if they wanted you to cme back then they shouldn't of aproved the leave for the whole time, just up to when they wanted ya back... unles they tell ya about this recall ahhead of time, you can just not answer the phone and play stupid....... stupid stuff like this is one of the reasons i'm glad i didn't jin the army..... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gofast_ER 0 #15 June 13, 2006 yeah we are getting a full month when we get back. Can't wait to get back with all that cash saved up and a month off! Whoo! Gonna be a lot of jumps on a new rig I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #16 June 13, 2006 QuoteGonna be a lot of jumps on a new rig just make sure yo order it 3-4 months out epending on manufacture so it is ready when yo get back.... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gofast_ER 0 #17 June 13, 2006 oh yeah that has already been discussed with the guys at my dz. I was saying a month and someone laughed and said I better make it 2 or 3. Either way, i'll have a new mirage or infinity waiting for me when I get home I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #18 June 13, 2006 Been doing the Army gig a few years and I am somewhat familiar with this situation, since my cousin is also stationed at Polk. The policy in question has to do with accountability and safety. It is coming from the highest levels of the chain of command there. Having been on both ends, as the Stuckee, and now as a confirmed member of "They" let me try to give you some perspective and explanation: First, the legality of the order. Beware of barracks lawyers. Your commanders know the UCMJ better than you do. "They" can do just about anything they want in the name of good order and discipline and in the name of the health and welfare of their troops. "They" have access to the real lawyers and trust me, "They" would probably not issue a policy like this that the JAG guys had not blessed. The chain of command's order trumps the admin procedure of the leave form, which is nothing more than a device for charging leave in full day increments. Second, the intent. In this case, the chain of command is trying to prevent what we all know happens because we were all young once and did it ourselves: Your leave technically starts at midnight, but we all know that many take off after last duty the evening prior. For that period until midnight, you are in a legal sense, absent without authority, unless your commander has a policy saying you can depart after last duty the day prior. Now we up the ante due to safety (stay with me here): You have been on duty for an extended period, you jump in your car after 1700 formation and try to drive all night to West Wherever. You fall asleep at the wheel around 2300 get in a wreck and end up in the hospital. Now you are not only absent without authority, but your injury is not in line of duty due to own misconduct (your absence) which means you now get to foot your own medical bills. The recall formation is the same principle in reverse: 1) prevent the known fudge factor of not really counting a guy as not signed in unless he fails to show at first formation the next morning, and 2) discourage guys from trying to drive all night and slide in at the last minute. Even if you wait until midnight to depart or return, the chain of command is trying to keep guys off the road late at night and from traveling on little sleep. Now, in your instance, you are flying, so it is a bit different. If you purchased your ticket before the chain of command announced the policy, perhaps you can get permission to go on leave a day early and return a day later. Submit the leave form with the new dates to cover yourself legally and attach a note as explanation. Despite what you may think, most commanders don't want to see their troops get screwed out of money by having to change a ticket. You may not be on firm ground however, if the policy got announced and you bought the ticket anyway based on the advice of a barracks lawyer who said "They" could not stop you from departing. Hope that helps. Don't push the envelope on this. Any attempt at mass disobedience will probably backfire. You also don't want to be the poster child for setting an example about what happens to AWOL/FTRs prior to a deployment. Have fun on leave and be careful down range. CDR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #19 June 13, 2006 QuoteYour leave technically starts at midnight, not if you make it start at a diffrent time.... i have had my leave stats start at 1700 before and flown home, it all depends on how you ant to put it, start at 1700 on friday and saturday is the first chargable day, put it for 0001 on saturday and sunday is the first chargable day, but what matters is the "status" part of it......so maybe they just need it to have the "leave status" start after the formationin the morning... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zulu 0 #20 June 13, 2006 As much as I hate to say it, CDRINF is right. It sucks the big one but think about it this way. You dont show up, now they have to track you down, and yes they can recall you off your leave and cancell it. Remember the UCMJ is not designed to protect you, its designed to protect everyone who outranks you, Its just a sarcastic way of understanding the rules. Do the fornication thing and get it over with. It will be less of a hassle if you dont. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #21 June 13, 2006 You are in the Army not the Boy Scouts. You should have read the fine print when you signed up. "They" can do anything they want. Get over it. QuoteA lot of us are pissed about this and have agreed that we werent going to be in formation for these days. Can our unit do anything to us for not being there? Remember, you don't accrue leave when in the stockade. A group action like that might be mistaken for mutinyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjarv 0 #22 June 13, 2006 Check out your leave form, it clearly defines when leave starts and ends. If you're Air Force, if you have to complete more than 50% of the duty day, then that day is counted as duty. They CAN make you show up for formation, but they CAN'T charge you leave. Talk to your first sergeant, he'll know the rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #23 June 13, 2006 CDRINF put it much more clearly and in much more detail than I did....listen to him. At least talk to your CO to see if you can get exempted. I was in AIT at Ft. Monmouth, NJ in '69. Had a ticket to go to Woodstock. Base commander told everyone "Fine. Go if you want but if you're not back Monday at 8am for duty you'll be given Article 15's." (Note that he was really a nice guy because he could have said be back at 0001.) Everyone that I know that went did not make it back in time and every one of them got Article 15s....side note: every one of them signed it too. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #24 June 13, 2006 Quote...Talk to your first sergeant, he'll know the rules. You'd trust your first sergeant? With the exception of the legal beagles, whatever happened to protecting yourself instead of depending on someone else to do it for you? Get a copy of the UCMJ and read it.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #25 June 13, 2006 in the Oz army you're on call 24/7 if they say turn up you turn up, or get chargedYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
