leapdog 0 #1 June 22, 2007 I did a search and nothing came up. I have been looking all over the internet as well. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with jumping what I think is a magnesium flare. instead of using smoke at night this is supposed to shower sparks that dissapate so no hot buring embers land anywhere. The next question is where can I get something like that. I have a possible night demo coming up and could use one. Thanks Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lekstrom10k 0 #2 June 22, 2007 Seems to me that kind of flare is the kind SCUBA divers use, so you might start looking at a Dive Shop. I dont think its a good idea especially with the dry areas around the country. If you must get a few and try them during the day only if your over your DZ and the grass is green etc, Have some dummy that you promise to buy beer for stand out there and try to catch the sparks on his tongue. That would be better than a "HolyShit what have I done" on the jump.Remember you cant put one of those out until its burnt out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leapdog 0 #3 June 22, 2007 Thanks for the heads up, I'm aware of the safety precautions that need to take place. I wonder why a SCUBA diver would use something like that? Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #4 June 22, 2007 Airtwardo on here is on a demo team that has/does demo jumps like this. I am sure he could tell you all about it. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #5 June 22, 2007 Quote Airtwardo on here is on a demo team that has/does demo jumps like this. I am sure he could tell you all about it. Beat me to it! He has got some awesome demo stories on the Scary Stories thread in the history forum."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iowa 0 #6 June 22, 2007 I have used one minute marine flares quite a lot in the past. I don't know where they were bought. They are HOT and dangerous and not to be used without thorough preperation and training. The magnesium ones may be what Twardo uses. There is a picture on the Liberty Parachute Teams website. They look really cool. I think Jim told me they were class C (?) fireworks. Again, tough stuff to play with. Our demo team doesn't use the flares any more. We use a one million candle power "headlight" to light up the canopy. Much safer. Personally I think the flares look better, but, I much prefer the light. If you use the flares, get proper instruction. There are several different boot brackets I have seen. You need boots! Shouldn't be a problem for a Gunney. Also some Nomex leggings is are more than a good idea. Having the flares fastened to a cable doesn't work well. The first time you use one at night you'll think your ass is on fire. It probably isn't. You know you can't look at it, but damn do you feel lit up. I'm sure Jim can give better instruction on this. Keith ''Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.'' - Ernest Hemingway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leapdog 0 #7 June 22, 2007 I have been thinking of testing if regular sparklers you can get at a fireworks store bundled together will work. It would have to be a bunch of them for any sort of significate spark trail. I was going to test ignite them with a 9 volt battery, push botton switch and a model rocket engine igniter. Of course I would have to have it contained somehow so it won't set off until I wanted it to. Also I use cable lanyards to hang smoke under canopy, no need for boots. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #8 June 22, 2007 wow pyrotechnics,,,,,, And a Demo,,, And a night jump.... any others joining you on this...?? Are you ALL Pro-rated??? Will there be other canopies in the air??? or is this a "one man show" ?? What might be, the prospective landing area???? wide open?? or tight??? will it be well lit?? are there plans for a Wind Indicator? to be located at the landing area?? If you Do proceed, then use good judgement. don't become distracted while "lighting Up"... to the point of compromising your place in the sky, relative to the place on the ground, where you need to land....Winds on a Night jump seem to have a way of changing, from what is expected...be careful of embers,,,,especially once you land, be careful not to stain, or soil , or burn, any part of your gear....OR your body...imaginative thinking is fine... but you may need to thoroughly test any such incendiary device, on the ground, well before utilizing it on a Night demo....with others in the air, and spectators on the ground... Not sure if fireworks ( sparklers etc) and rocket ignitors even Belong in a jump plane in the first place.....I like the sound of battery powered light BULBS, or trailing streamers,, which can be seen easily once you're on final... Even if you can rig something... just be sure you don't go stacking the deck against yourself..there was a bandit demo around these parts, in 1973 or so. where these 2 or 3 guys jumped P C 's into a rock concert over Watkins Glen raceway.... one guy lit a fuse, with the idea of lowering a charge, ( we were told it was an M-80, but it mightta been TNT ) down below himself, on a lanyard, so that when it went "boom".. all the rock and roll fans, would look up,,, to see HIM......yeah... welll....as it turned out,, he could not reel out the lanyard, and couldn't toss away the connected explosive, and the damn thing went off,,, right in front of him, and he suffered fatal wounds to his chest and torso......very sad... he was a VERY experienced and aggressive skydiver for the times, but he did something rather foolish, and it cost him... please be careful....smoke is one thing and is touchy enough, just is it is... adding sparks, and embers, and glowing discharge, is even EXTRA touchy.....go easy, so you can go again... cordially jimmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iowa 0 #9 June 22, 2007 Cables and flares equal bad juju. The complications and problems are to many to list. Been there, done that. Please, don't do it. I've heard chain works well with a lot of stainless steel hose clamps. Learn from the mistakes of others, you don't have time to make all of them yourself. Keith ''Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.'' - Ernest Hemingway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leapdog 0 #10 June 22, 2007 QuoteCables and flares equal bad juju. The complications and problems are to many to list. Been there, done that. Please, don't do it. I've heard chain works well with a lot of stainless steel hose clamps. Learn from the mistakes of others, you don't have time to make all of them yourself. What I have is esentially what you describe. I'm not that much of a stranger to devices for demos. just haven't done pyro for night yet. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #11 June 23, 2007 QuoteI think Jim told me they were class C (?) fireworks. For which I believe you have to have a license/permit for, IIRC... Again, Twardowski has one night demo story in the Scary Stories thread about a night pyro jump. There was something about having to light the pyro, and one of his teammates messed up somehow, and there was the usual (BOOM) except he heard the teammate yell "SON OF A BITCH!!!" It was hilarious reading, but sobering when you think of doing it yourself..."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #12 June 23, 2007 Quote Quote I think Jim told me they were class C (?) fireworks. For which I believe you have to have a license/permit for, IIRC... Again, Twardowski has one night demo story in the Scary Stories thread about a night pyro jump. There was something about having to light the pyro, and one of his teammates messed up somehow, and there was the usual (BOOM) except he heard the teammate yell "SON OF A BITCH!!!" It was hilarious reading, but sobering when you think of doing it yourself... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8904; Some people won't even consider jumping at night, some wanna hang bombs all over themselves and see nothing wrong with it...Go Figure?! A couple of comments for the OP... Gotta use chain if you want to hang it, it burns through cable. You WILL burn up your gear eventually, the hot burning embers go through everything.I have a rig the I use only for night pyro jumps and it's icky....the main on that rig has been replaced three times in probably 50 (+ -) shows. I wear a Nomex racing type suit under the jumpsuit and 1 inch thick nomex leggings, which show all kinds of burn holes, hate to think what my legs would look like without them. The pyro hardware is 'cherry red' hot, long after you land, watch where and what you land on / near...and of course if the canopy hits any of it..Toast. Re-think your canopy wing loading, the hardware required for a safe pyro display gets quite heavy, at standard set-up can easily add 60-80 pounds to your exit weight. 'Standard' EP's are out the window... It's a very specialized type of jump and you need to think every possible scenario through....for example, length of the chain is somewhat critical in regard to how you turn, to long and a turn will put you right into the 'trailing' sparks, to short and the sparks will trail up into the canopy. I heard (cough cough) about an instance where enough of the burning media went into the canopy to burn/melt the wing into an out of control blob-mess...can't cut the main away, ya got a cable full of fireworks hanging from you, can't cut the burning fireworks away...it has a rather negative effect on the people and landscape below...WHAT to do?! Your rigging has to be as clean and idiot proof as possible. Some years back when we were the only team doing an extensive pyro display, several other demo teams tried to short-cut the R&D process and simply wanted to 'copy' what they 'thought' we had and were doing. One fatality and one major injury were the result. I've had some eye opening experiences jumping pyro over the years, when it works right it's spectacular...if it goes wrong..it's REALLY SPECTACULAR! Had an emergency rescue crew tell me once, if you land and are still burning, we WILL NOT approach you until you go out! Good luck, be safe and have fun. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #13 June 23, 2007 I found Airtwardo's night demo story. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=270299;page=4;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Post #78 It's funny as hell! "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leapdog 0 #14 June 25, 2007 Thanks a bunch for the input. I really didn't want close to military grade explosives. Just a little something that will shower a few sparks sort of like those 4th of July hand held sparklers. but with a bit more so there is a trail as I'm flying canopy. BTW- I'm a CRW dog none of my EP's are standard ever. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #15 June 25, 2007 BTW- I'm a CRW dog none of my EP's are standard ever. Quote Well...they're 'standard' for crew right? Check the manual for instructions on EP's at night, covered in brackets and lights, while on fire, over a large metropolitan area. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leapdog 0 #16 June 25, 2007 Quote BTW- I'm a CRW dog none of my EP's are standard ever. Quote Well...they're 'standard' for crew right? No two wraps, entanglements or wirlygigs are the same so I'd say no. There is some sort of starting place like communicating information and one or two other things like who cuts away first and under what conditions but I can assure you that when you are doing something like 8 way speed, like I'm in to now, only communicating is standard doing more than agressive CRW with a 107 loaded at 2:1 isn't really standard so the EP's won't be either. Speaking of eye opening experiences my first exposure to that stuff had my eyes as big a plates *** Check the manual for instructions on EP's at night, covered in brackets and lights, while on fire, over a large metropolitan area. Thanks I'll do that. Gunnery Sergeant of Marines "I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #17 June 25, 2007 You forgot the water all around ya too! I still have a freebag headen to the gulf from Nashville. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #18 February 6, 2012 Quote You forgot the water all around ya too! I still have a freebag headen to the gulf from Nashville. Matt Sorry to bump an old thread...was searching something else and saw this, missed it the 1st time. ~Hey Matt, Nashville...THAT was YOU?! Small freakin' world!! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #19 February 6, 2012 Quote Quote You forgot the water all around ya too! I still have a freebag headen to the gulf from Nashville. Matt Sorry to bump an old thread...was searching something else and saw this, missed it the 1st time. ~Hey Matt, Nashville...THAT was YOU?! Small freakin' world!! On the 5 o'clock news and every thing.But, yeah, wow! talk about a thread resurrection! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctrph8 0 #20 February 7, 2012 I know this is a really old thread but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents if it comes up again. The folks at Burning Sky (the skydivers that set up a camp at Burning Man every year) have come up with some really great solutions to this. The gear and fireworks are all custom made but they included some creative safety features and the effect was gorgeous. QuoteI did a search and nothing came up. I have been looking all over the internet as well. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with jumping what I think is a magnesium flare. instead of using smoke at night this is supposed to shower sparks that dissapate so no hot buring embers land anywhere. The next question is where can I get something like that. I have a possible night demo coming up and could use one. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #21 February 7, 2012 QuoteCheck the manual for instructions on EP's at night, covered in brackets and lights, while on fire, over a large metropolitan area. Reminds me of the story about Pierre, ze famouse French aviateur.....'e always liked to go down in flames..... But I'm at work so I can't post it right now.... I do recall a story of a night demo gone wrong many years ago where the jumoer attached a hot flare to his foot for a night demo, and with his feet on his backside during the freefall, burnt through the saddle and legstraps of his B4, and on opening, continued on his way without his rig.... Not sure if it was actually true, but it was a good story....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #22 February 9, 2012 leapdog I would not recomend anything that hangs down for you. If you haven't done this stuff before - start small and safe. There are some small, (size of a big cigar) devices, known by their nickname as "gerbs". You can hold your hand in the shower of sparks if you arent't too close. They are very bright and simulate magnesium flares. OK not even close to those big 3600 farenheight (sp) monsters but still they are good for effect. Can buy w/o license. Must buy electric "matches"to set them off. They do not burn hot. They are made of heavy cardboard. Burn on the ground to familiarize yourself. Some $$ money involved to buy enough of them to train with. Must have suitable foot bracket, leg protection, method of jesttison of bracket= well designed(not something you invent in your garage)and all of the other danger tips in the previous posts. Electrical system. Practice jumps, pro rating, aircraft contingency plans if they go off in the plane..etc etc etc. My advice is to go to Houston and train with Twardo for a jump or two. I can put you in touch with a local company in Denver here that will sell the "gerbs" at the point wher yu are competent to use them. Brackets are available that are proven by multi years of use. So, in short, you ought to invest a whole training plan to get to be able to do this stuff with a minimization of risk; and even minimized is still risky. Contact me if you want to proceed and how to get the "gerbs". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #23 February 9, 2012 My advice is to go to Houston and train with Twardo for a jump or two. Quote How the heck do ya get ahold of Twardo? THAT guy is NEVER home! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
