Sabre 135, pro or psycho?

[link2334 0]

I'm sure this has been discussed many of times but just looking for some info... I have a sabre 135 and its slammed me pretty hard alot. I have tryed just about everything exept a pocketed slider and psycho packing it. I've had a few senior riggers even try packing it and some jumps are better then others but nothing has been consistant. I know sabre 1's are known for there hard openings but theres gotta be some way to slow down my openings. I dont know how, but would psycho packing it help or no? I read the article about body postion and it also helped some. Any advice would be great. Thanks

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Eat, Drink and Jump for tomorrow we die.....
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[hookitt 0]

Bigger slider or put a pocket on it. I'd suggest calling PD and ordering the larger slider.

That is all. Good luck

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[matt91078 0]

Measure, or have a rigger measure the slider before you call PD to verify with them that it is the correct size. My slider on an old sabre 1 170 was 108.5 square inches too small which was a good reason it slammed like hell.
Matt

[Ronaldo 0]

If you’re willing to spend $150 on your canopy I’d suggest the H-mod. Right now I’m test jumping my Cobalt and I’m really amazed of how this modification improved the openings and dive speed. I have noticed an improvement of about 50% on opening times. This is not estimated data; I have already compared video footage. Opening sequence times increased from 4 to 6 seconds approximately (from line stretch to a fully inflated canopy).
A pocket slider is a cheaper but not so good looking modification. Another positive aspect of the H-mod is that it may add some resale value to your canopy while a pocket on the other hand might depreciate it.
If you’re planning to stay with the Sabre for a while then maybe the H-mod is a good option. If you’re thinking about selling it soon, than just get the pocket slider to save your neck.
BTW, I psychopacked a Sabre for a while and although it helped a little bit it was not the ultimate solution for the problem.
If you need a video to compare the openings just let me know.

Blue skies!

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[link2334 0]

This may a stupid question but what is a H-mod?
Yeah I'd like to see the video's too..... Thanks

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Eat, Drink and Jump for tomorrow we die.....
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[AggieDave 6]

H-mod puts triangle pieces from the non-load bearing ribs to the load bearing ribs across the nose. It slows inflation time, but it also "cleans up" the nose making it a bit faster. Basically it drastically changes how the canopy flies and typically makes the canopy a bit "higher performance" with a bit longer recovery arc, etc.

As to your question about pack jobs, which ever packjob allows you to have the most control over your slider moving from the stops. Beyond that the actual pack job is what controls the opening. The method of bagging the canopy doesn't change the opening speed.

There have been many posts about fast opening Sabres, if you do a search you'll find many proven and practical solutions that don't include drastically changing the nose of your canopy.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ronaldo 0]

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This may a stupid question but what is a H-mod?

It was not a stupid question. I should have explained or at least put a link to it. As said before the H-mod (Howard modification) consists of small triangles sewn at the leading edge between the non loaded ribs. It acts like a cross-brace at the nose, transferring part of the force applied on the loaded ribs to the non loaded ones. This helps create a smoother leading edge profile. The triangles also help to “form” the nose reducing drag. The side effect of the mod is softer openings due to the reduced nose area.
Here goes the video:
http://discovirtual.uol.com.br/disco_virtual/ronaldo.pqd/Skydive
(you must type the password "portalpqd" and then click on "h-mod")

Please note that the opening shown as “before mod” is one of my canopy’s softest ones. The usual openings were all faster than that (I had a few slammers).
The H-mod will add a little bit of performance to your canopy. If you’re not 100% comfortable flying it then it may not be a good idea to do it right now.

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[mdrejhon 8]

My Sabre also is much happier with new lines -- make sure your tail isn't being constantly deflected (shrunken steering lines). These seem to help make some Sabre openings into spankers. Basically if your steering lines feel tight and taut even all the way to the stops, that can be a factor in affecting the openings.. I remember noticing improvements to my openings after steering line replacement.

(Since you are a new jumper, one word of warning about line replacement: Make sure you get really familiar with where the flare begins -- basically, you may have to preposition your hands a few inches below the stops, not all the way at the stops -- the point where the tail deflects. Steering line replacement can be confusing on the "first experience" for sudden adjustment to a new flare band (different hand position for start of flare, and for end of flare)... so hop n pop high altitude.)

Ditto about bigger slider -- mine already came with the bigger one (I think. I only quickly measured it.)

[link2334 0]

I remember noticing improvements to my openings after steering line replacement.


One step ahead of you. Before I even jumped it I sent it to P.D. for new lines and an inspection. So I have only experienced it with the new lines. I talked with PD yesterday and think I'm gonna try a bigger slider........

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Eat, Drink and Jump for tomorrow we die.....
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[Ron 7]

Pro vs psycho is not going to make the openings slower. Psycho is just really adifferent way to put it in the bag.

Go with a pocket or domed slider, or the mod people are talking about

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Jonsmann 0]

I don't quite agree with this.
I think psycho packing is more than "just a different way to put it in the bag", and it definitely gives slower openings. I've tamed Sabre 150's that for years had given consistent hard openings.
To the original poster; go ahead and try psycho packing, but please get help from someone who normally psycho pack. Too many think they know how, but really don't know anything.
Many people have tried psycho packing without instruction and gotten miserable openings as a result (often with line twists).

Jacques

[dmetz 0]

I agree with Jacques.

I switched to pyscho packing and have had great results thus far. I know that it is really only a differnet method of bagging, but that method allows me to control my pack job better.

_________________________________________

"If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?"

[AggieDave 6]

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I don't quite agree with this.
I think psycho packing is more than "just a different way to put it in the bag", and it definitely gives slower openings.

Break down the dynamics. The packjob is what is done before you set the canopy on the ground. The differences between traditional pro-packing and psycho packing is after you put the canopy on the ground.

People get better openings with psycho packing typically due to them having more control with the canopy. Keeping the slider from moving around, typically.

I have nothing against psycho-packing, I've done it more then a few times on various canopies, its just not what some people think it is.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ron 7]

As Dave said...It is not that your psycho packs are so good...It is that your pro packs are so bad.

There is NO difference between a psycho pack and a pro pack till you flip the psycho pack 180 on the ground to roll it up and shove it in the bag.

If you disagree, please explain to me how they differ in the actual pack job, not just putting it into the bag.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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I agree with Jacques.

I switched to pyscho packing and have had great results thus far. I know that it is really only a differnet method of bagging, but that method allows me to control my pack job better.

Then you don't really agree with him.

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I think psycho packing is more than "just a different way to put it in the bag"

Please explain to me how it is more than just a different way to put it into the bag?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Jonsmann 0]

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There is NO difference between a psycho pack and a pro pack till you flip the psycho pack 180 on the ground to roll it up and shove it in the bag.

This is where you are wrong. There are no difference until you wrap the tail around the canopy. After that stage the packing methods are different.
We seem to agree that what comes after the canopy is put on the ground is different, so lets focus on what comes before.
1. With a Pro-P the nose is usually wrapped/closed and put in the center of the pack job (or variations of this). This is not done with a Psycho-P where the nose is arranged after it is put on the ground. (more control as Dave points out)
2. After pulling the tail around the canopy the tail is closed (by wrapping the two sides). This is not done with a Psycho-P where you just hold on to the tail, and arrange the tail when it is one the ground. (more control as Dave points out)

How the canopy is put on the ground and how it is bagged is quite different, but we seem to agree on this.
I think the two packing methods are quite different, and saying that Psycho packing is just a Pro-Pack with a twist is misleading.
It is like comparing a Diablo and a Crossfire 2, they are both elliptical ram-air canopies right? How different can they be?

Jacques

[AggieDave 6]

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This is not done with a Psycho-P where the nose is arranged after it is put on the ground. (more control as Dave points out)
2. After pulling the tail around the canopy the tail is closed (by wrapping the two sides). This is not done with a Psycho-P where you just hold on to the tail, and arrange the tail when it is one the ground. (more control as Dave points out)

That's a definate variation of a psycho-pack. Since typically you roll the tail like a propack, spin and place on the ground. Fold the corners and roll.

Don't know what you call your packjob but its not the same thing. So trying to compare it as a psycho pack to a pro-pack is very misleading to others.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jonsmann 0]

Really, take a look here they invented the Psycho pack.
http://www.precision.aero/omega_pack.htm
http://www.precision.aero/extreme_pack.htm
http://www.precision.aero/tandempack.htm
As you can see the tail is definitely not rolled!

If you roll the tail you offset two clear benefits of the Psycho pack. The controlled arrangement of the nose when it is on the ground, and verification that the control lines have stayed at the back.
There are variations of the Psycho pack (personally I use a more exotic version) but the variation I describe is the most common.

Jacques

[AggieDave 6]

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There are variations of the Psycho pack (personally I use a more exotic version) but the variation I describe is the most common.

Alright, I'll agree with that as to the fact that I also stated the rolling the tail is a variation, except I wouldn't say its the most common. At this point I guess you and I will have to disagree, but continue to have openings we like with our prefered bagging method.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jonsmann 0]

Fine by me!
Jacques

[Ron 7]

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If you roll the tail you offset two clear benefits of the Psycho pack. The controlled arrangement of the nose when it is on the ground, and verification that the control lines have stayed at the back.
There are variations of the Psycho pack (personally I use a more exotic version) but the variation I describe is the most common.

They are basicly the same. They are VARIATIONS of each other.

You can claim it is new, better, different all day. But while there may be different ways to pack a parachute it really is the same thing.

I have seen people who both claim to pro pack do nothing the same...That does not make it a different pack job.

If psycho packing is so much better, WHAT makes it better? Tell me what you do that is impossible in PRO packing?

This who thing is stupid, but I have nothing better to do.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334