Canopy destruction/safe landing with reserve - Ukraine, April, 29

[dragon2 0]

2 years ago on our dropzone we had a new (5th jump) canopy self destruct on opening, 2 cells torn completely off, jumper in the hospital. Shit happens.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Freeflysmiley 2]

Why are you flaming a dealer on 'BEHALF' of someone else? If they have a gripe they should be posting, or better yet NOT posting and speaking to the dealer themselves. Especially as the person concerned is as an AFF instructor, I would assume they are vastly more experienced than yourself?

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Practise the 6 P's!
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[Nick_Fedchik 0]

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From the description you posted and looking at the pictures my first impression is that the canopy was loaded asymmetrical during deployment. The damage is consistent with tension knots. If you play the video slowly it appears that the jumper has his right shoulder way low at or just before line stretch. You say the jumper has over 2000 jumps, how many on a canopy like the Vel. 107?

Thanks about Your comment.
It was third jump on that Velocity 103.
Previous experience is 800 jumps also on Velocity 103.
The Dealer promises than lines can be used at least 200 jumps ahead.
Now the dealer just keep a silence about to the canopy owner...

--
Blue Sky!
Association "PARA-SKUF" (DZ Borodyanka, Kiev, Ukraine)
http://www.paraskuf.com.ua

[Nick_Fedchik 0]

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Why are you flaming a dealer on 'BEHALF' of someone else? If they have a gripe they should be posting, or better yet NOT posting and speaking to the dealer themselves. Especially as the person concerned is as an AFF instructor, I would assume they are vastly more experienced than yourself?

Again, I don't flaming to a dealer... Just need to know a public opinon about this situation. As I know the canopy owner has tried to talk with dealer about, but dealer keeps a silense...

--
Blue Sky!
Association "PARA-SKUF" (DZ Borodyanka, Kiev, Ukraine)
http://www.paraskuf.com.ua

[jurgencamps 0]

I do not see the link between the malfunction (blowing up the canopy) and a lineset which needs to be replaced. Lots of people jump with old lines, with canopies which need to be relined (and I am talking about several hundreds of jumps).

There are other things to be considered like: packing error, opening when still in tracking or going to fast, bad luck, canopy already had a tear in from previous jump, canopy has been exposed to the sunlight for a few days, just bad luck, ...

In belgium last year on the same day, two different canopies blew up at the opening (is a tread somewhere here on dropzone.com, DZ = hoevene). So it can happen.

I do not believe that you can blame it on the dealer just like that.

Verify, ask questions but be very, very careful if you attack somebody. You will need prove, not assumptions.

Jurgen

[AMax 0]

I think everybody understands that that you and Hagen have good intentions but really, you are not doing your friend a favor (I assume he's a fiend).

I am not trying to advocate a dealer in question, but keep in mind that it has been less than a week since this malfunction occurred and a dealer is a very busy man. If you know who Andrey is, you should not be surprised that it's difficult to reach him.

Until you hear from the dealer, silence would be your best course of action.

Just my 2 cents

[Hagen 0]

AMax, thanx for your 2 cents but the only intention I had while posting the information was just to show the community how things like this may happen. Actually, I try to watch as much skydiving video as I can but I've never seen anything like this yet (and hope not to see it again, even on video:). If you carefully review my posts, you'll see that I didn't mention any Andrey as well as didn't try to speculate. I just asked about experienced opinions on the case. And I thank everybody who gave them. As to the arguments between the owner and the dealer, I think it's only their business. However, personally I am curious about how the story will end.

[dragon2 0]

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I think everybody understands that that you and Hagen have good intentions but really, you are not doing your friend a favor (I assume he's a fiend).

I am not trying to advocate a dealer in question, but keep in mind that it has been less than a week since this malfunction occurred and a dealer is a very busy man. If you know who Andrey is, you should not be surprised that it's difficult to reach him.

Until you hear from the dealer, silence would be your best course of action.

Just my 2 cents

Huh? I just said that sometime canopies do blow up. I don't know Hagen or the jumpers in question, although I do happen to know Andrey but I don't care if he's the dealer or not.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Hagen 0]

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I just said that sometime canopies do blow up

and that's what I learnt from the thread. As you can see from my profile, I'm just a beginner. And to me accidents like this seemed to be exceptional. But according to opinions I heard here they're not that impossible as I used to think (unfortinately). Anyway, I wait for some qualified expertise of the case because I still want to find out how to avoid such situations. Someone mentioned here that destruction like this happened even to a new canopy. So, how can we guarantee ourselves from buying rigs that may get just destroyed like this?

I understand that my questions may sound quite naive. But I still hope to find some answers because I want to jump safely and for many years:)

[AMax 0]

Dragon2,

Sorry, i meant to reply on Nick_Fedchik's posts. My bad.

[dragon2 0]

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So, how can we guarantee ourselves from buying rigs that may get just destroyed like this?

You can't. What you CAN do is do everything in your power to prevent it, but it still may happen.

What can you do:
Make sure you don't make any packing mistakes that can result in a higher opening speed
Make sure the lineset is still ok
Make sure you open at normal airspeed
Make sure you open in a good body position

This is just off the top of my head. Of course opening PERIOD is more important than opening at normal airspeed etc, but you can try to work on that (slow down after a freefly jump, after a track etc).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Nick_Fedchik 0]

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I do not see the link between the malfunction (blowing up the canopy) and a lineset which needs to be replaced. Lots of people jump with old lines, with canopies which need to be relined (and I am talking about several hundreds of jumps).

There are other things to be considered like: packing error, opening when still in tracking or going to fast, bad luck, canopy already had a tear in from previous jump, canopy has been exposed to the sunlight for a few days, just bad luck, ...

The lines was in good conditions from the dealer's words, I remind it was just a third jump of experienced AFF instructor on a buyed canopy.
Has any PD bulletin than 400-times used Velocity can blow-out by packing error, opening (it wasn't fast down because of first-levels AFF jump of student)? I think no.
The canopy was packed by experienced packer of the dropzone.
I don't blaming to the dealer.
I also don't seen an independend situation analysis by experts here.
And I've wishing for all - let's shit doesn't happend...
Thanks, topic closed.

--
Blue Sky!
Association "PARA-SKUF" (DZ Borodyanka, Kiev, Ukraine)
http://www.paraskuf.com.ua

[AMax 0]

Well, I will reply because you don't seem to understand a point that was brought up by very experienced people in response to your posts (of course I am not counting myself as experienced). Gear-related accidents happen and sometimes they happen without the obvious reason. Yes, you can minimize the chances of such accidents by maintaining your gear in a good shape, but you can NOT completely eliminate them.

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The lines was in good conditions from the dealer's words,

- it's hard for us to evaluate the conditions of the lineset. I doubt that you have enough skills to do so and we have not yet heard from the person who jumped that canopy. All we know is your assumption that the lineset was not airworthy and this assumption is based on second hand information. I am afraid you are making a mistake but trying to make a point that is not supported by reliable information and/or experience.

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I remind it was just a third jump

So he made 2 jumps on a canopy that presumably had a bad lineset? Why? Isn’t it obvious that inspecting a newly purchased used gear it a good idea? We still d not know whether such inspection was performed.

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of experienced AFF instructor

Experienced people also experience malfunctions and sometimes die. An ability of exercising a good judgment is a part of being experienced. What we know from your posts is that the guy either did not inspect a canopy before using it or disregarded the fact that the canopy was not in a good shape. In addition (and pardon me for being blunt) I saw his break-off and tracking. Perhaps your definition of “experienced” is different from mine.

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The canopy was packed by experienced packer of the dropzone.

Another experienced guy …
Well, even the most experienced packer cannot guarantee that his pack job will never malfunction.

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I don't blaming to the dealer.

In fact, you did.

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I also don't seen an independend situation analysis by experts here.

This thread was commented by people who have made from 1000 to 6300 jumps. Most of these people are instructors and riggers. Perhaps you should go back, read what they posted and try to learn from their comments.