My Ex called...

[airdvr 200]

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Have you sat down and talked with your kid about drugs and given him the scientific facts about what they can do to your body? Get online together and do some research so he can't say that you're giving him biased info.

If his grades are slipping, offer to get him a tutor. Once kids grades slip, it's hard for them to catch up on their own, and it's got nothing to do with intelligence.

Take the car away for the drugs for the rest of the school year because driving while high is a bad idea, but don't hold it hostage for his grades, especially not when it's almost April. If you're worried that the drugs will be repeated after your conversation with your son, piss test him once a week, and as long as it comes out clean, he gets to drive the yellow car.

We've talked about the drug part. I don't think he buys it and I'm not going to try and spoon feed it to him.

The grade slipping thing has to do with how much work he's willing to put forth, not necessarily his intelligence or ability. He coasts and has a 2.5. Now he's gonna have to pedal

Believe me its not all hardass grandstanding on my part. Hard discussions, for both of us. I guess you'd call it semi-tough love.

We met with the guidance counselor prior to this incident and he's slated to take a full boat next year. AP courses almost all. He won't be able to coast thru that. If he's serious about wanting to enter an engineering program he's going to have to learn how to bust his ass in class.

BTW...if I haven't mentioned it...thanks to everyone for your support and suggestions. I really do hear all of them.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 200]

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When he was in 8th grade he came home and said he wanted to play football. We'd already tried baseball and basketball. He didn't take to them because he wasn't good at them, and wasn't interested in trying to get better. WHen he said football I thought "here we go again". To my surprise he has done well with it and stuck to it all through HS. My point is when he want to do something he accels.

The ability to focus on sports is completely different from the ability to focus on school, because in sports, while you may be playing the same game for an hour or two, the situation is constantly changing, so it is not as affected by ADD.

Elementary and junior high school tends to be more interactive than high school, and therefore, more engaging to kids with ADD. With high school, there are more lectures and more distractions, and it's harder to focus, so grades slip more, and teachers aren't as pro-active about helping students with problems.

There have been a ton of advancements in drugs for ADD. It may be worth exploring them and sitting down with your son and his doctor and getting all the information. Like Lisa said, he's already self-medicating, so give him the opportunity to make an informed decision about whether he'd want to try medication that's actually been developed for and treats his condition.

This isn't the end-all, be-all kind of thing yet. If he fails to get it together this way we'll discuss ADD treatment sometime in the future.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Nightingale 0]

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The grade slipping thing has to do with how much work he's willing to put forth, not necessarily his intelligence or ability. He coasts and has a 2.5. Now he's gonna have to pedal

My mom said the same thing. I spent almost all of high school (six semesters out of eight!) grounded because of my math grades. No phone, no TV, no driving, no friends. It never occurred to my parents that I was trying, and just didn't get it, because my SATs and IQ tests were high, so they thought there wasn't anything I couldn't do academically if I was willing to put in the effort. They were wrong. I was making every effort I knew how, and it wasn't working, because high school requires different tools, and all I had was the hammer that had worked just fine in elementary school.

This is a mistake a lot of parents make. If a kid's grades slip, and they know their kid is smart, the grade problems are automatically the kid's fault, and left to the kid to fix. The kid is usually grounded or punished, and no academic help is offered because parents assume their kid can fix it by trying harder.

Keep in mind that your kid is smart. That means he's probably been coasting his entire life. He doesn't know how to study, because he's never needed to study. Now that he needs to, he doesn't have the tools he needs to catch up. He doesn't understand why the methods he's used his whole life aren't getting him good grades anymore now that he's in the second half of his high school years.

If you want his grades to go up, don't make him do it on his own, because he probably doesn't know how, and that's not his fault. One of the things I learned as a teacher was that kids want to get good grades. They stop caring AFTER they start failing, because they give up and start thinking they're not capable of doing better. You have the chance to get to your kid now, before he gives up.

Right now, you are assuming that your kid's lack of effort is causing the problem. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. Get him a tutor and find out for sure.

[Nightingale 0]

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This isn't the end-all, be-all kind of thing yet. If he fails to get it together this way we'll discuss ADD treatment sometime in the future.

This is his junior year. Those drugs take time to get into the system and work, and there's a lot of trial and error involved in finding the right drug, dosage, or combination. If meds are what he needs, you don't have a lot of time to waste. Take him to the doctor, talk it over with him and the doctor, and let him decide.

[airdvr 200]

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The grade slipping thing has to do with how much work he's willing to put forth, not necessarily his intelligence or ability. He coasts and has a 2.5. Now he's gonna have to pedal

My mom said the same thing. I spent almost all of high school (six semesters out of eight!) grounded because of my math grades. No phone, no TV, no driving, no friends. It never occurred to my parents that I was trying, and just didn't get it, because my SATs and IQ tests were high, so they thought there wasn't anything I couldn't do academically if I was willing to put in the effort. They were wrong. I was making every effort I knew how, and it wasn't working, because high school requires different tools, and all I had was the hammer that had worked just fine in elementary school.

This is a mistake a lot of parents make. If a kid's grades slip, and they know their kid is smart, the grade problems are automatically the kid's fault, and left to the kid to fix. The kid is usually grounded or punished, and no academic help is offered because parents assume their kid can fix it by trying harder.

Keep in mind that your kid is smart. That means he's probably been coasting his entire life. He doesn't know how to study, because he's never needed to study. Now that he needs to, he doesn't have the tools he needs to catch up. He doesn't understand why the methods he's used his whole life aren't getting him good grades anymore now that he's in the second half of his high school years.

If you want his grades to go up, don't make him do it on his own, because he probably doesn't know how, and that's not his fault. One of the things I learned as a teacher was that kids want to get good grades. They stop caring AFTER they start failing, because they give up and start thinking they're not capable of doing better. You have the chance to get to your kid now, before he gives up.

Right now, you are assuming that your kid's lack of effort is causing the problem. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. Get him a tutor and find out for sure.

His grades slip because he doesn't do the required work. He doesn't bother with his assignments because he know he can get by on his test scores. Now he will have to do both homework and test well. It's not that hard to understand. Believe me, if he applies himself, and does the assignments and the tests, he'll be fine that way. Here's an example. This is AP English from last semester.


1 performance Process 48 50 A
2 Got Milk Analysis Product 30 30 A
3 Parody Script 2008-01-22 Process 8 10 C
4 Commercial Log 2008-01-22 Process 23 25 A
5 DGP quiz 2008-01-25 Product 10 11 B
6 ad test 2008-01-29 Product 44 54 C
7 vocab pages 2008-01-31 Process 10 10 A
8 vocab/DGP test 2008-02-01 Product 25 29 B
9 group commercial parody Product 43 45 A
10 othello/shakespeare quiz Product 33 35 A
11 homework assign #1 2008-02-07 Process 0 10 F
12 homework assign #2 2008-02-08 Process 0 10 F
13 mini-research final Product 43 50 B
14 vocab test Product 26 30 B
15 ad test corrections Product X 0 EC
16 prose/poetry essay Process 20 20 A
17 vocab pages 12 Process 0 10 F
18 Othello study guide Process 0 10 F
19 vocab 12 test Product 20 23 B
20 othello final test Product 55 58 A
21 whitman substitution poem Product 14 15 A
22 vocab mastery pages two Process 10 10 A
23 othello performance Product 34 40 B
24 othello final test essay Product 23 25 A
25 vocab mastery test 10-12 Product 66 90 D
26 current event summary Process 10 10 A
27 poetry work in class Process 15 15 A
28 research paper proposal 2008-03-19 Process 0 5 F
29 book sell & summaries Process X 50

No reason he shouldn't have an A in this class except for the homework issue. WHat I'm asking him to do is move one of his classe from a B to an A, move three of his classes from a C to a B, and maintain his other class at its current B. If he does the damned homework it's a no brainer.

The fence is built...he knows how to get to the gate. And I'm not asking something of him he can't do...and he knows it.

I'm not a real big geliever in the psych drugs. During the divorce a doctor wanted to put my then 8 year old daughter on Prozak. I asked him if he'd ever been on an anti-depressant med. He said he hadn't. I had been...Lexapro for 6 months. It was like I was in a dream world. I didn't care about anything...surrendered a business I had worked 14 years building because I just gave up and quit trying. The last thing I'm going to do is have either of my kids on Psych meds until we've exhausted all other avenues, and say what you will, ADD meds are psych meds. We're not to that point yet.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Nightingale 0]

There's 780 available points in that class. Your kid missed out on 45 of them due to missing work. That's 5% of his total grade. If he got As on everything he turned in, he'd still have a 95%, which is an A. He's not getting an A. He has some Cs and Ds mixed in with those As and Bs. He's earned 662 points (assuming the last was supposed to be 50/50). He's got an 84% in that class now, and even if he'd done all the work and gotten 100% on the missing assignments, he'd only have an 89%, which is still a B.

What you can do here is call all his teachers and ask if they would be willing to allow him to turn in the work he is missing for half credit. He'd still have an F on those missing assignments, but an F at 50% is better than an F at 0%, and his grades would be a better reflection of his ability. Sure, you're bailing him out, but in college, there isn't much in the way of busy work, so missing assignments probably won't be an issue.

I missed at least half my homework in high school (mainly in classes I understood and thought the busywork was a waste of time), and didn't miss a single assignment in college, because the college syllabi tell you how important every assignment is. Missing an assignment that's 1% or 2% of your grade in high school is no big deal, but missing one that's 20% of your grade in college is huge, and kids understand this.

As a teacher, I never agreed with penalizing students for missing homework if their test grades were B or better, because if they're passing the tests, they obviously don't need the practice of homework.

[Zenister 0]

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His grades slip because he doesn't do the required work. He doesn't bother with his assignments because he know he can get by on his test scores. Now he will have to do both homework and test well. It's not that hard to understand. Believe me, if he applies himself, and does the assignments and the tests, he'll be fine that way.

Perhaps you should address this from the otherside. The majority of 'homework' assignments are mere regurgitation of that which (from his test scores) he has already learned.

Remember that the school system is designed for the lowest common denominator. Your son sounds (much like me) like he is learning faster than he peers and is bored. (a common problem with bright ADHD kids) Rather than ask him to slave himself to a flawed system see if he teachers will become more adaptable to his needs (and increase what he learns while he plods through a flawed system) by giving him 'homework' assignments that are not regurgitation, but require him to learn something new.

I continually got A's in classes were the teachers cared enough to challenge me and C's in the classes were 'regurgitation' remained 50% of the grade (and wasted time that you can never get back) In the end my total GPA suffered, but I learned significantly more than my peers who 'played by the system'.

I'll take real knowledge over 'playing the system for a grade' any day.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Nightingale 0]

Absolutely... and if he's diagnosed ADD, you may even be able to have that written into his IEP.

Edit: That's why some ADD kids do so much better in college. The education is more self-directed (don't like the topic of a class, take a different one) and there's little to no busy work. As long as the student gets themselves to class and does what's required, they'll do fine.

[Zenister 0]

there is always the option that your son has simply developed better masks than you can perceive. The apt student will eventually pass the teacher.

I'm not bitter towards my father at all, he is a very large part of who I am, and in many ways 'made me to well'. I grew beyond his expectations faster than he imagined I would when I applied the 'question everything' mentality (one he taught me) even to him, and was perfectly willing to accept the consequences of my actions when he expected me to bow to his will.

The reality is more than he did not feel we were equals, that I should remain subservient to his will and POV and did not give me the respect that was my due, but demanded it from me. At that point we parted ways. I dont regret it at all, but I know for fact (from many sources including him) that he does. There were enough events in both of our lives in the time we were not speaking that the confrontation he forced could have easily been the last words we had together. Of the two of us, I'm the only one who still wouldn't change my decision.

All actions have consequences, I learned that directly from my father. Self reliance and 'sink or swim' are a few of his maxims. However few are those capable of seeing ALL the consequences and parents can be just as blinded by their 'superior, been there done that' perspective. In respect to my life with my father, he certainly didn't imagine I would chose a path (and its consequence) that he could not have at my age.

Parents like to believe they really 'know' their children and what is going on inside their heads and lives, (and your post well illustrates you share that belief) but rarely is it an accurate one.

I am in no way judging you or your family situation based on the limited information posted here, I'm simply attempting to offer the perspective that there is ALWAYS more going on than is perceived from the parental POV by using examples from my own life.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

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That's why some ADD kids do so much better in college. The education is more self-directed (don't like the topic of a class, take a different one) and there's little to no busy work. As long as the student gets themselves to class and does what's required, they'll do fine.

Completely agree, the only issue becomes when you get to far into one class to change (certainly affected my GPA in few semesters of college) and then becoming completely distracted from the educational process (also happened to me when I was confronted by situations and issues I hadnt learned to deal with yet)

Far to much of the 'modern educational system' is focused on memorizing and regurgitation of specific 'facts' and not enough on teaching the student 'how to learn'.

it is very much the 'give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish' applied to the education process itself. If you learn the reason and method you can teach yourself (and anyone else eventually) anything you wish by its application and the ability to find the source of the information you are seeking.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.