Back sliding

[awagnon 0]

Anyone have any suggestions for back sliding? I slide backwards about as fast as some people track forwards. I thought it was due to the fact that I'm old (62) and stiff which affects my ability to get into a good arch. I've tried stretching exercises to improve my arch, extending my legs until they're almost straight out, changing my arm position, but I still slide back. I've jumped with coaches who give some suggestions, but nothing so far helps much. Best I can tell, I have trouble extending my legs back at the hips. ( And no, I'm not interested in bowling. )

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[theonlyski 3]

How does your jumpsuit fit? Short of actually seeing you flying, and telling you to put your legs out and bring your arms in, I would think that maybe you've got more drag on your top half than your bottom half and its pushing you back.

But Im just a lowley rookie coach, so, I dont know all the tips of the jedi

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[pchapman 261]

While internet diagnosis is tricky, and I'm no expert RW coach, I get the impression that maybe your upper legs are angled downwards from the hips, because you can't flex well at the hips.

Generally, the more one spreads one's legs, the less one can arch at the hips. So it can help to bring the legs more together to be able to arch better. Except as a beginner one doesn't normally need a really wide spread eagled position to stay stable in the roll axis.

How else to counter backsliding? A jumpsuit with big booties could help to drive more with the lower legs. Or even angling the forearms down when in the box position to counter backsliding. (Normally that isn't something that is done because the legs can handle forward movement better.)

[NWPoul 1]

Wind tunnel

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[Andy9o8 0]

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Wind tunnel

That's fine over the long term. But over the short term, that is only good advice if someone has the means (distance; time; money) to get to a tunnel soon. This guy does not live within easy driving distance from the nearest tunnel. He needs advice on what he can do now, in the sky.

[awagnon 0]

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Wind tunnel

That's fine over the long term. But over the short term, that is only good advice if someone has the means (distance; time; money) to get to a tunnel soon. This guy does not live within easy driving distance from the nearest tunnel. He needs advice on what he can do now, in the sky.

Actually, there is a tunnel a few miles from my home. I've been in it a few times. I back slide in it, but not as badly for some reason. I guess I need more time in it.

As mentioned earlier, putting my forearms down at an angle does help more than anything. In fact, it's been about the only way I can begin to do RW. My jump suit is pretty tight, expecially in the legs. I'll try borrowing a DZ student suit that's baggy and see if it helps. Thanks for the suggestions. Please keep them coming. I'm determined to master this.

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[Andy9o8 0]

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Actually, there is a tunnel a few miles from my home.

Oh.

Who asked you?

[davelepka 4]

For starters, you're not backsliding as fast as a track. It's awfully hard to do, and your openings, and stability at pull time, would be all over the place.

You may indeed have a tendency to backslide, but it's not that bad, and can be fixed. Hire yourself an AFF I and a camera guy for a jump or two, and get some outside video of you and the AFF I flying together.

Don't use a 'coach' or your jump buddy, get an experiecned AFF I. These guys are trained to fly no contact with 'less than ideal' jumpers, and can also evaluate and offer hand signals regarding your body position in real time.

Get a good camera flyer, and explain the purpose of the jump. Make sure they shoot from angles that will allow you to see your body from the side, and the pitch angle your flying at. If they can also catch the hand signals as well, that will really help during the debrief. Have the AFF I pick the camera flyer because they'll know who can shoot a dedicated training video, and who just gets the 'face shot' and not much else (you don't need your face in this video).

The in-air training may help, but the outside video and post-jump debrief is what you really need. Often times there's a difference between what you think you're doing, and what is really going on, and seeing yourself on video is the key.

Don't worry too much about your jumpsuit just yet. Even jumpers with limited flexibility can find a way to fall straight down, and you should figure this out first, and then tweak your jumpsuit selection once you've got the basics covered.

[jumpwally 0]

Very good advice...

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[DSE 3]

you say you're changing your arm position, but to what? You're kinda lanky and thin...where are your arms?

The coaches should be able to help you find a position that works for stable freefall without backsliding, but as Dave mentioned; video would be a huge help. Having someone at the side/level 90 degrees as you're falling next to a stable base would also provide a good point of reference.

[chuckakers 370]

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Anyone have any suggestions for back sliding?

Stick your legs out...in a tunnel. One weekend of tunnel time with custom-built coaching should solve that problem and several others you haven't thought of or encountered yet.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[jsaxton 0]

stick your fucking legs out

[awagnon 0]

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you say you're changing your arm position, but to what? You're kinda lanky and thin...where are your arms?

Arms are next to my head with hands even with my ears. By changing arm position, I mean I slant my forearms down which helps drive me forward some.

I jumped with an AFF-I today (Phil L.). No video, but that would be a good idea. He noted I fly with the upper part of my body more slanted upwards, which pushes me back. I do have my legs out, but without being able to arch more at the hips, the legs aren't as effective, I guess.

I'll get some tunnel time this weekend. Weather is supposed to be crappy, so it will be a good time. I'll see about getting video with an AFF-I next time I'm at the DZ. Thanks for the help.

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[erdnarob 1]

Are you back sliding when you are alone or just when jumping with somebody else ? I know it's difficult to figure out when alone. The suggestion to try a wind tunnel will make it obvious.

When you are jumping with another jumper, if you look up too much (head up) you will have the tendency to slide backward especially if your knees are bent. To compensate, don't put your head up too much and extend your legs. By extending partially the legs enough, you will create more lift on your legs and your body will tilt to become horizontal. That should solve your problem.

Explanations of the back sliding. When free falling, you get an upward vertical aerodynamic force from the air applied to the surface of your body. To backslide, your body has to be at angle (torso up) with respect to the horizontal plane. Then an horizontal component of the aerodynamic force will make you backslide rearward if your torso is higher than your legs. This is why more lift on your leg is necessary to have no angle at all or having your body horizontal

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[awagnon 0]

Tried to get some tunnel time this weekend, but they were booked. Maybe next week.

However, I jumped today with our moderator, DSE, and he found what I was doing wrong. Mainly arms and shoulder position, and somewhat the legs. By having my arms "boxed" better, and my elbows further back than my shoulders ( hard for me ) I had a much better upper body position. Also, better leg position and I fell perfectly straight. I get the feeling DSE felt most of the problem was with the arms and chest. Only got in one jump before the weather shut us down, but I learned a great deal which I can practice in the tunnel or on my next jumps. Also, I can do some exercises at home which should help. Thanks, Douglas.

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[DSE 3]

Alton,
I wouldn't say what you were doing was "wrong" but rather what most people are taught to do.

Keeping your elbows above the shoulder level (not behind) and removing the cup your arms/chest were creating is what solved this particular problem.
You fixed this problem, now let's work on your tracking.
Great docks, BTW!

[mstlaurent 0]

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I jumped with an AFF-I today (Phil L.). No video, but that would be a good idea.

Too bad he didn't have a camera. That's an excellent tool for coaching. Personally I would suggest a jump with a good videographer over a jump with an AFF-I without camera.

Once you have yourself flying on tape, you can look at it again and again with a coach, an AFF-I or even post it here.

Good luck!

Martin