tombuch 0 #1 October 15, 2005 Part 65.131 requires that when a rigger packs a reserve he must make a record on the parachute data card listing the date and location of the repack, and his seal number. There is no mention about including his seal symbol, and some rigger don't. That pisses me off. (For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, a rigger has an official FAA certificate number, usually eight or nine digits, and a seal number, usually three digits.) When I inspect a rig for a visiting jumper I want to know when and where the rig was packed, who packed it, and I want to be sure the last pack job was done by the rigger who signed the card. I like to match the rigger seal symbol with the notation on the card. If the rigger doesn't list his seal number on the card I have no means of making the match. Including the seal number along with the certificate number really makes it easier for inspection by other riggers and drop zones. It's a simple thing. Is there any reason a rigger might not list his seal number? Another slightly less annoying issue is riggers that have such sloppy signatures that nobody can read them. I know a rigger is supposed to sign the card, but that doesn't mean he should pretend he is a doctor. When I look at a visiting jumpers reserve card, just being able to read the riggers name gives me the warm and fuzzys. It tells me the rigger is a professional who cares about his image, and it means I don't have to ask the jumper (with clear annoyance in my voice) who the rigger was. As long as I'm on this rant...I also like to know what the reserve is, but some riggers don't bother including that information on the card. When I'm checking-in a visiting jumper I like to match the reserve type and size with the jumpers experience and weight. So it's helpful to know what is actually packed in the container. If it is an unusual reserve or container I also like to see a notation that it is or is not TSO'ed, especially if it is a foreign jumper who might be subject to his home country rules and not the FARs, but only if one of the components is not TSO'ed. So, that would be a cool thing to note on the front of the card, but I don't think I've ever seen it. Anybody else have thoughts on the issue? Does anybody else do check-ins at big DZ's or boogies and see this sort of stuff? .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 October 15, 2005 My stamp has my cert # and seal code. I bought a stamp to prevent pencil packing and to make sure it was legible. As for my signature, sorry, but the space is too small and it has never really been legible. Packing data cards need to be revamped. 1 card for each major component and larger spaces for information on each line. The S/N block is too small for Cypres1 S/N's. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #3 October 15, 2005 Quotethe space is too small Was my peeve, too, until I looked at aircraft logbooks. Those logbooks have neat rows and columns for filling in information for different services, but mechanics merrily ignore the rows and columns, use big rubber stamps instead, and the FAA doesn't mind as long as the information is there. Now I ignore the vertical lines and column headings. Not enough room for a Cypres serial number? No problem: borrow some space from the column to the left or right. My new peeve is folks who think they can't use more than one line of the data card per repack. Hey, if it doesn't fit on one line, use the next one too. Oh, yeah. My other peeve: where except on parachute data cards do you sign first, and put details last? Would you sign any other legal document that way? Try this instead: date first (manifest likes that), details next (maybe just i&R, but if you did the PD 30# test, patched the reserve, and installed a CW-0301 Test #1 compliant ripcord, just use as much space as you need), then location/rigger #/seal, and finish with your signature. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #4 October 15, 2005 QuoteIf it is an unusual reserve or container I also like to see a notation that it is or is not TSO'ed, especially if it is a foreign jumper who might be subject to his home country rules and not the FARs, but only if one of the components is not TSO'ed. So, that would be a cool thing to note on the front of the card, but I don't think I've ever seen it. Tom, If this is the case, you should not find a certificate number, seal symbol or a signature of a FAA rigger. It would not be legal for them to pack the rig. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #5 October 15, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf it is an unusual reserve or container I also like to see a notation that it is or is not TSO'ed, especially if it is a foreign jumper who might be subject to his home country rules and not the FARs, but only if one of the components is not TSO'ed. So, that would be a cool thing to note on the front of the card, but I don't think I've ever seen it. Tom, If this is the case, you should not find a certificate number, seal symbol or a signature of a FAA rigger. It would not be legal for them to pack the rig. Sparky Kinda true, but it does happen. Sometimes a rig is packed in the jumpers home country by a legal rigger in that country (sometimes even legal in the USA too). Sometimes an FAA rigger will be legal to pack a rig for a foreign jumper under that countries policy/rule. The specific cases I'm thinking about have involved Russian jumpers, with Russian gear, packed in the USA for use in the USA, by a Russian rigger, who is also an FAA rigger. It's probably rare at most drop zones, but is more likely to happen at larger DZ's with large ethnic subpopulations. I had to hunt the rigger down to better understand the relationships and what was actually inside the container. It just would have been easier if the legality of jumping that gear in this country was presented on the card. Another case would involve a non-TSO'd reserve packed in a foreign country and signed, but without a certificate number. My questions is 'why no certificate number' and my position will be you can't jump that here unless you can show me it is not TSO'd and IS legal in your country. The more common case would involve a foreign manufactured reserve that is TSO'd for use here, and that is packed by an FAA rigger. If I see the manufacturer on the data card and know it's foreign, I always wonder if that specific equipment is TSO'd. The same is true for a harness, but most approved harnesses have the TSO tag where I can see it. Knowing if it is or is not TSO'd tells me what rules to apply. The issue seems to come up with French and South African equipment more frequently than other gear. It would just be easier if the rigger made a note on modle line that is is TSO'd for use in the United States. Another way to handle it is not to sign with a certificate number or use your seal symbol if it's not TSO'd, and to always use those elements if it is. But that's a harder thing to change industry wide, I think. So, I guess what I'm saying is that riggers who are packing gear intended for use in this country should know our rules and offer a quick notation to reduce confusion so that inspectors can figure out what is inside. I'm the S&TA at The Ranch in Gardiner, New York, and we get a fair amount of foreign gear. It's sometimes confusing, and I really look for ways to help the customer, but I need something to hang my hat on. Riggers that go the extra distance help me to help their client. So, what are the rules here? See http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=96 .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 October 15, 2005 So, I guess what I'm saying is that riggers who are packing gear intended for use in this country should know our rules ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tom, You are asking for too much. Half the riggers do not fully understand the rules in their own countries, much less in the USA. Furthermore, I rarely know whether my customers intend to jump their gear in the USA, ergo I stamp most reserve packing data cards with my FAA number.. Rob Warner CSPA Rigger A and Rigger Instructor FAA Senior and Master Rigger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
