Good deal? Safe? Need advice

[erasmus 0]

I'm 5'8" 170#, just graduated AFF, need a used rig to jump on for a while. I will talk to my instructor before purchasing any equipment, but I would appreciate as much advice I can get regarding the following rig:

Javelin J-3 container (1996), a Sabre 170 (2000) with 170 jumps, a Cypres (2000) with new batteries, and a Swift Plus 175 reserve (1996).

The price is about $2000.

Do you think a Sabre 170 is too aggressive? It would be a 1.1 wing loading. As long as it has been properly maintained, is this a good, safe rig?

[GravityGirl 0]

You will not be wing loading at 1:1. Wing loading takes into consideration the weight of the gear. About 25 lbs.

Without any other variables, I would not recommend this as your first canopy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[gemini 0]

What size main were/are you jumping on student status? How are your landings?

Blue skies,

Jim

[aber_aos 0]

Disclaimer: I am not an instructor, and I don't have any idea of your abilities. I also only have 175 jumps, so I don't know very much.

I bought a sabre 170 at 30ish jumps. I also weigh 170 without my rig on. I was very happy with the canopy. HOWEVER...

1) I jump very close to sea-level, so the air is more dense.
2) The air is normally pretty cool where I jump in the UK; normally 0 to 18 Celcius on the ground, again making it more dense.
3) I was pretty good at standing up my landings on the canopies I had jumped before. [/modest]

You don't say where you jump, so I don't know how high it is, nor how warm. If it is high, or if it is hot (even for part of the year) this canopy may be a bad choice (remember I may know nothing). Also, you really should ask people at your DZ who have experience and who you trust to give you an opinion based on your abilities.

Even with the conditions listed above I still had a few 'interesting' landings which I've learned a lot from. I didn't hurt myself in any of them, but had the speed been a bit higher (air being a bit less dense) I may well have. To put it in perspective, I jumped the 170 again recently on a hot day in nil winds and it was really moving; not landing it properly would not have been fun.

I'm not saying you should or you shouldn't jump this canopy. I don't have the jumps, nor the knowledge of your abilities to be giving advice like that. All I'm saying is that I had one for a while and I enjoyed it, but under certain conditions and, in hind sight, having a little luck. Listen to people you trust, listen to the little voice in your head that wants you to walk away from every jump. Please don't buy something you think will be right for you in 50 jumps.

Oh and remember, luck comes in two flavours. I had some of the good kind.

[hookncrater 0]

Price is too high IMHO. Those are oldish canopies and while they will likely work fine, (as long as the Sabre has been modded to slow the openings so it won't kill you), personally, I'd save up a few extra bucks and at least get a more modern reserve than a Swift Plus like a PD-Reserve or an R-Max. As far as the wingload, it really depends on youy skill and your instructors recommendations. Just because I was loading at 1.1:1 as a newly minted A license holder for instance, doesn't mean it is a good idea for you if you get my drift.

________________________________________________________________________________
when in doubt... hook it!

[erasmus 0]

Thanks for your advice guys. I'll pass on this rig and keep looking.

As far as landings go, I only had to PLF one AFF no wind landing (Level 2). The rest were all stand up - one downwind (Level 1) and no wind (Level 7).

So you suckas bragging about your superior AFF landing skillz, bring it on baby! No one can swoop my student 230 like I can!

[riggerrob 561]

The real question here is: how good are your landings under the student 230?
... and how many dozen jumps will you be able to borrow a 190 before you jump your second-hand rig?

170 sounds slightly too small for someone just off AFF.

The Swift Plus only becomes obsolete if your are foolish enough to load it more than 1.3 pounds per square foot = 228 pounds.
Newer reserve designs (Amigo, PD, R-Max, Smart, Techno, etc.) only become important when you load more than 1.4 pounds per square foot.

[erasmus 0]

The landings themselves were fine, but accuracy needs improvement, and the no-wind landing scared me a bit because I really had to run it out and I was on concrete.

[skymiles 3]

I think a Sabre 170 is a bit too aggressive right off student status. If possible, I would recommend that you rent a rig for the next 20 or so jumps and gradually down size from 230 to 190. By then a 170 should be fine. I’m 170 and that's exactly what I did.

As for the rig you listed, $2000 sounds reasonable. Just make sure the container has bridle protection. If it doesn’t, a good rigger can install it for about 50 bucks.

Phil

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

erasmus, for what its worth... here's my 2 cents for y'all to chew on... I'm about the same size as you... when I started out, my first rig had a PD190 and RavenII reserve in it, that was going on 13 years ago... so, something compareable today-wise, I would think would be a Specter190 and maybe a PD193-Reserve. I'm not saying it has to be those canopies / that mfgr specifically, I'm just trying to give you a baseline to work from. Remember, as long as you fly smart you'll have "the rest of your life" to downsize, try different canopies, etc., but if you're reckless, the rest of your life may only grant a short period of time to learn... Good luck.

[mdrejhon 8]

I don't know about you, but money matters prevented me having my own rig until jump 60.

On the other hand, I had the luxury of gradually downsizing on rentals off a student Manta to a novice Sabre (230->190->170) using rentals before purchasing my rig. So 170 is where I am at now, but I'm significantly lighter than you are! I'd say, wait....

Renting is a royal pain at times, but the good thing is that I don't even need to downsize anymore until much later when I'm eventually already swooping 180's on this very same canopy (a few hundred jumps later, after going through the normal swoop progression with a canopy coach such as Scott or Brian, including 0's, 45's, and 90's first). That means my canopy will last for hundreds of jumps without needing to downsize, from my currently conservative straight ins, all the way to beginning to learn to swoop when I'm ready to learn that.

I think there's a lot to be said about renting until about 50-75 jumps, but it came at a minor disadvantage to me -- it delays my "A" quite a bit since many dropzones do not allow you to learn packing on rental.

One point of view....but take me with a grain of salt, please! I'm only a 68-jumper.