Spotting Training - do you see it happening?

[theonlyski 3]

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I spotted for my 3500 hop and pop, pilot waited about 10 seconds after I told him to cut before doing so (I guess is GPS is more accurate than me... :) )

SOME pilots have a tendency to give a climbing green light... Kinda sketchy stuff, just make sure you dive down.

That is more the exception than the rule, I think I've only had 2-3 climbing hop&pop exits. It helps to know the feeling of the plane when it levels out.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[theonlyski 3]

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Pull high enough and have enough canopy skills and spotting becomes a dead art.

It is a dead art.... But I hope you are joking.

It is far from a dead art....come back to a C-182 DZ that does IAD's or SL.

...and jump a ROUND!

Yeah, with no mods.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[chuckakers 370]

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Your one warning. Cut it out.

After the crap I hear you dish out? Please.

Are you on the board of your home owner's association, by chance?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[absane 0]

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Jus' curious.

To be honest... about all the spotting training I had was to stick my head out the door. I taught myself how to do it because I know that not every DZ uses GPS.

Don't forget to pull!

[airtwardo 6]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLouO_bIL78


Fast forward to 1:25 in the video...bunch of old farts!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[dninness 4]

Before I was a coach, my girlfriend was going to start AFF and she was quite the question hound.

One day, she asks me "Hey, how do you spot?"

I actually had to think about it, because, at the time, I didn't do all the mathematical calculation of the spot as shown in the SIM. I had tons of aviation experience (Army crewchief & flight engineer) and I started jumping at a 182 DZ (static line) with no GPS, so I learned the "dark art" of visual spotting from a very low jump number. She came to me one day and said "Where is the spot?" I looked up at the clouds, looked at the ground winds, and sort of waved my hand in a direction and said "I guess about thataway, maybe .2?" Well, that just flipped her out that I was so imprecise.

In becoming a coach, I learned the "by the book" method of spotting (I was a "make an educated guess and then throw a WDI" guy from my 182 days), and started to get more heavily into that method so I could teach it.

Now, as an instructor, I teach it, but I also tell my students that they need to be constantly observing the previous loads to see if the spot calculation based on the forecast is accurate for the conditions, where the spot may have been adjusted to, and to tell me if they think the spot should be adjusted further.

As for the "Go! Go! Go!" idiots, well, they can pack sand. During my AFF course last year we were doing an practice eval jump and one of the jumpers further back in the plane started shouting like that. I waited till we got down to the ground but very firmly told her that she needed to calm down and cut that shit out. I think next time I'm in a spot where I have people behind me doing that, I'll just move to the side and say "here, you go first.."

And we do teach it to our students, and I actually drag them out to the plane (when its not flying) and have them practice looking out the door.

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

[JohnRich 4]

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As for the "Go! Go! Go!" idiots, well, they can pack sand. During my AFF course last year we were doing an practice eval jump and one of the jumpers further back in the plane started shouting like that. I waited till we got down to the ground but very firmly told her that she needed to calm down and cut that shit out. I think next time I'm in a spot where I have people behind me doing that, I'll just move to the side and say "here, you go first.."

Yep, if the spot is really WAY off, then motion for them to go ahead, and see what they do when they get to the door. If they hesitate, holler "GO! GO! GO!" just like they did.

If it's just a matter of waiting a few more seconds, hold up a hand in a "wait" gesture, and continue to spot.

[727_Jumper 0]

omg... I just saw this video, reminded me of this thread. I just had to come share..

couple points... spot the aircraft and just don't go because someone said go


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtPDjGE8RU&feature=related

[mjosparky 3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtPDjGE8RU&feature=related


Sticky

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[erdnarob 1]

Unfortunately spotting training is almost a lost habit. Not only jumpers are not interested too much to get that training but find it not necessary. The main reason is that malfuctions are relatively rare and people rely on the performance of their canopy to bring them back to the landing area from a long or missed spot.
What they forget is that a good spot can save them a lot of money in case of a malfunction. Losing the main or just the freebag is quite costly. Not being able to land in a familiar area because of a missed spot can also result in injuries since about anything can wait for them on the ground (trees, fences, roads, hidden hazard like steel bar or junk of any kind). On the other hand, people find out their lack of skill and knowledge in technique of spotting when they get their pro rating and have to organize a demo downtown for instance.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Will_Evo 0]

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When I got on our jumprun last sunday my group was at the door and there was no visibility of the DZ....the light was on and everyone was yelling at us to exit...even though we couldnt see shit. We got down to around 7K and it took at least 'what felt like a good 10 seconds or so' just to get through the big puffy. I was slightly below my normal pull altitude just to get a clear shot of the dz below. Is this considered 'ok'?

Don't forget you can spot from the ground before the jump too. I just moved to Hawaii and pulled myself off a load for my first jump there because of the low cloud cover. Luckily in hawaii the weather changes fairly quickly.

As far as being taught spotting. My instructors were awesome for this..and I also attribute the training I got to the fact that the DZ ran cessnas...which meant we could do more personalized real-time stuff. We used to go up..and my instructor would have the pilot go off heading purposely and have me bring him back. She also taught me how to properly look down...and not out. Being able to spot has saved me from a couple off dz landings already in my small amount of jumps...and it becomes crucial when you visit a new DZ for the first time and are given an aerial photo of a DZ....its nice to be able to see that photo and then recognize things while in the air.

-Evo

Zoo Crew

[erdnarob 1]

I my precedent post, when talking about spotting training I had in mind the way to evaluate the spot location, not the spotting itself. We all understand that both are important ie. finding the spot location by appropriate means and techniques for exiting right at the spot. Sorry if there was some confusion.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[rhaig 0]

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If the pilot says I can get out, I get out. Doesn't always work out perfectly but I get my skydive in. haha.

Learned that at SUSA!!

I remember spotting a particularly hairy jumprun at SUSA out of the porter. flying into nasty headwinds at exit altitude trying to get past a storm cloud. barely got past it when the pilot tapped me on the shoulders and pointed at the fuel gauges. time to go!! :)

we got pushed right back over the DZ and got the hell beat out of us in freefall by the rain. but we didn't land off!

I also remember vaguely spotting the load that heather's first AFF jump was on first thing in the morning and putting everyone out long. (the wind reports were off and I'm sticking to that story)

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

[replyOn the other hand, people find out their lack of skill and knowledge in technique of spotting when they get their pro rating and have to organize a demo downtown for instance.

[erdnarob 1]

Where is Ballunar and what are the ground features on that DZ?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[rhaig 0]

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Where is Ballunar and what are the ground features on that DZ?

http://goo.gl/maps/X3So
The Ballunar Liftoff Festival on Johnson Space Center grounds. It's essentially a 2-day long demo. There were plenty of ground features. (including a saturn V rocket)

Finding my position wasn't what concerned me so much as making sure I was choosing the right spot.

If I recall correctly, it was nasty windy at altitude that day and the exit point was over Nasa Pkwy. Jumprun was SSE with a 20-way climbout. so call cut just past the landing area.

--
Rob