SPECTE VS. SABRE 2 SUGGESTIONS?

[BRYANGOESBOOM 0]

I JUST ORDRERED MY FIRST RIG FOUND A FEW USED MAIN NOW ITS A TOSS UP SINCE IM NEW TO THE SPORT ANY ONE HAVE A OPINION?

Not only will you look better, feel better, and fuck better; you'll have significantly increased your life expectancy. --Douva

[AggieDave 6]

Firstly, you probably want to turn your cap locks off, on the internet that's taken as shouting.

Secondly, you might want to do a search, its been talked about before, but a quick answer would be that they're fairly different canopies. Both are great canopies and your best bet would be to call up PD and get a demo of both to try out.

Most importantly, talk to your instructors and/or your S&TA to figure out what canopy and what size is right for your skill level and ability.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[darkwing 4]

Both are good, but they are very different from one another. First and foremost, talk with your instructors. My view is that if you have been jumping a year and have 9 jumps you should be conservative and go with the Spectre. It can be all the canopy you need for many jumps.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[mysky 1]

That has to be the best kept record of skydives I have ever seen. I feel guilty for what my jump records look like. Good example for the rest of us!

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those that know how to count, and those who don't.

[inextremis 0]

Spectre is a very interesting canopy. I demo'd and then bought one after putting hundreds of jumps on a Stiletto, for two specific reasons: I jump camera for a lot of beginning RW jumpers who don't always track reliably, and I do a lot of demonstration jumping (and jump a DZ with few outs). I loved the other PD canopies but the Spectre gives immediate control after opening and the best ability to land in a very tight spot--at least for me. I was worried about it's drive until I demo'd one. That demo program is fantastic, in some ways it's silly to buy a canopy before you jump one several times.

[Deuce 1]

Finley and Gasson jump Spectres. I'm a humble wannabe and I jump (two) also.

I keep getting in this discussion like the Spectre is a dog canopy, and then I'll be dogfighting with somebody who I'll wring out and they ask "what kinda canopy is that" and I tell them it's a Spectre and they feel all shamed or something.

A loaded Spectre is extremely badass. Mine are loaded about 1.7 or 1.8 to 1, depending on my camera gear. The very worst opening I've had, with a ton of shit on my head, had only caused me soreness. Fellow camera fliers with similar helmet loads have been sidelined by other canopies.

I was in a really nice editing seminar with Finley and Gasson when the canopy discussion came up. My reply was that I can do everything I want with the Spectre, can land it anywhere, and what the heck would I gain by switching? I lend my second rig out all the time because folks who try wingsuits or just want to do some casual crw don't want to sweat the 9 cell elliptical thing.

I'm no canopy Nazi, and don't even check out the swooping threads. But don't pick a nine cell just because you can feel the general disdain folks have for the 7 cell people.

PD, you listening? Gimme a sponsorship? Something like: Spectre! Middle-aged guys survive all the openings with tons of shit on their heads!

You'll sell billions!

[CygnusX-1 42]

First, this is by no means a recommendation for a specific canopy. It is more of an observation I have made.

I am currently in the process on downsizing myself. A couple of weeks ago I spent two back-to-back days jumping first a spectre 150 and then a saber2 150. I only made a very limited number of jumps on either one. Some of what I say could (and probably is) be wrong. Please someone correct me if I am wrong as I also would like to know that. All disclaimers aside, here is what I noticed:

1) Both canopies responded to toggle turns very well. I could not tell you if one had a tighter turn radius than the other one.

2) Flat turns were fairly easy to do without loosing altitude on both canopies. However, I have heard from more experienced jumpers that there is less over-steer on the spectre and therefore you have better control.

3) Toggle pressure seemed less on the spectre than the saber2. I only noticed this while flying in brakes for a long time and my arms didn’t seem to get as tired under the spectre. I’ll update you all on this one after I get my arms back from calibration…

4) Flare on landing seemed to be flatter on the saber2 which may be useful for those of us learning how to not kill ourselves while doing performance landings.

5) I’m not going to go into the obvious aspects which anyone can find out with a little bit (and I do me very little) of research, snatch force, snivel, opening characteristics. I am also in no way qualified to comment on front riser turns or high performance landings on these canopies and therefore shall leave that to someone else.

So which did I choose to get? I’m not saying except that it begins with a ‘s’ and ends with a ‘2’. Now if I could only find a used one that is a decent discount from the new cost.

[DancingFlame 0]

You should try a Safire or a Pilot. They have the same opening characteristics as a Spactre and a good flare (like Sabre2).

Oh, and something more... If your profile is correct and you are jumping a 190, Sabre2/Spectre 150 would be kind of aggressive canopy.

[Nightingale 0]

I've jumped both the spectre and sabre2, and personally, I liked the spectre better, and it's got great resale value. I bought one. However, I've also heard a lot of people raving about the pilot.

[gdmusumeci 0]

I have about fifty jumps each on a Sabre2 210 and a Spectre 210, loaded at about 1.1:1. Most of those jumps have been focused on canopy flight.

The Spectre has a noticeably softer opening. You need do absolutely nothing particular when packing it. I just let the nose hang and give the tail about five good wraps, and consistently get wonderful, on-heading openings as long as I pay attention to my body position at deployment. I found the Sabre2 to require a little bit more attention to get nice deployments.

At full glide, the Sabre2 flies a bit flatter than the Spectre. In deep brakes, I think their maximum glide is about equal. I've not had very much trouble flying home from long spots on the Spectre (or the Sabre2 for that matter).

The turning characteristics seem similar. I think the Sabre2 has a little stiffer front riser pressure. I tend to lose more altitude in a front-riser turn on the Sabre2. If I do a 90-degree turn on a front riser (plus some harness input), the Spectre seems to lose 270-290 ft in about 5 seconds; the Sabre2 loses about 220-240 ft in about 6 seconds. They are both quite responsive on toggles and you will be able to get pretty dizzy. If you are interested in CRW the Spectre is probably a better choice.

The flare on the Sabre2 seems a bit stronger. Although I'm not really interested in high-performance landings and will readily defer to someone else on this topic, I think you could learn to do that quite well on either type of canopy.

I quite like both canopies; I fly a Spectre 210 now. You might also consider the Pilot (similar to the Sabre2) and the Triathlon (sort of like a Spectre). Hope this information helps you out.

With that being said, I am in no way qualified to give you advice. Please speak with your instructors!

/gdm

[CygnusX-1 42]

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Sabre2/Spectre 150 would be kind of aggressive canopy.

Yes it is, and that is what I'm looking for. I've made a couple of jumps on a 170 and wasn't happy with the performance increase. The 150 gives me the performance increase without being too big of a step down such that it becomes dangerous.

I'm also kind of biased toward PD. I don't know, maybe it has something to do with driving past their factory every day to work...

[AggieDave 6]

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such that it becomes dangerous.

It IS dangerous. As proven before its easy to die under even a "boat" canopy loaded at 1:1 or less.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mysky 1]

My opinion is the following. I see many people telling you that the Sabre 2 has a quicker landing flare and planes out much sooner then the Spectre. Yes this is true but also keep this in mind. I fly a Velocity 103 and have a Spectre for my days when I don't feel like coming at the ground at mach 2. The Spectre is far less likely to stall then the Sabre and I know anyone who knows anything about either one of these canopies will agree with me. You can go into a full flare with much less chance of a stall with a Spectre then you can with the Sabre 2. It's whatever your school of thought is and how far along you are on your canopy skills that should be your final decision. I believe the Spectre to be a much better canopy for newcomers or folks with less then 200 jumps but that's just my opinion. I have seen canopy pilots that are more proficient with 50 jumps then some that have 500. It's all up to the individual but I recommend trying them both to see what you think. Either way I have had a Spectre around since as long as I can remember even when I started with a Sabre, Stiletto, Vengeance, and then Velocity. You just can't go wrong with a Spectre. All around great canopy.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those that know how to count, and those who don't.

[AggieDave 6]

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The Spectre is far less likely to stall then the Sabre and I know anyone who knows anything about either one of these canopies will agree with me.

I have a decent number of jumps under a sabre, sabre2 and a spectre and I would argue that its more of a brake setting and wingloading thing then a canopy design thing.

That's just my opinion, though.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Nightingale 0]

it isn't necessiarily the size of the canopy that gives a performance increase. A lot of it has to do with the skill of the pilot. What will your wingloading be on the new canopy, and have you taken a canopy class?

[CygnusX-1 42]

I didn’t mean to imply that downsizing is the only way to get a performance increase. I was more or less stating my observations between my 190 and the 150’s. Downsizing though does give you more kinetic energy, i.e. speed. Another one of my reasons for downsizing is that I want to get more penetration into the wind. I’ve never gone backward while under my 190, but I have on a few occasions turned onto final and come straight down. As for wing loading, I’m not exactly sure since I never weighed myself with the smaller rig on. But guessing it would be around 1.16 to 1.2 : 1. Personally, wing loading means nothing to me. It is just a number you can throw out to either try to impress somebody or in our case give a very rough estimate on how a canopy might perform. I’m more interested in can I control this canopy given my experience/talent and what I expect to do under a specific canopy. To me canopy choice is more of a personal decision. I would not ask “Which canopy should I choose” or “What size should I be jumping”. For me the question is, “What is the difference between this and this.” Let me know what I should expect and how to get out of problems and then let me experience it. I’m not one to just try something and then ‘lets see what happens’. So yes, I have taken a canopy control class. After I get my new rig, one of the first things I’m going to do is take one of Flight-1’s advanced canopy classes and maybe, just maybe, I’ll get some more time to work with Jay Moledzki. But who knows.


And AggieDave…wait a minute; skydiving is dangerous?? Damnit why didn’t somebody tell me this before? Now I guess I’ll just have to find another more docile sport. Anybody up for some tiddly-winks? (sp?) No that won’t work, I could choke on those little plastic disks. Oh well, the search continues…