emergency rigs-

[smiles 0]

I have been working designing graphics for manufacturer of emergency rigs. One rig design is static line, the other has release handle.

I cannot help but wonder if in severe emergency (highrise and no place to exit due to fire...explosion...or whatever) if a wuffo could follow instruction by pictures only- re: smash window- pull heavy desk or something to attach static line to, close to window---, hook up static line, get the rig on and tighten adjustments- do up belly band- and hurl themself out. Without any steering ablility under a round canopy- land safe doing a plf. Then again window washers, or construction workers on bridges, or para-gliders wearing an emergency rig would have to have the ability to grab hold of release handle with 2 hands.. while falling--to deploy their round canopy..

I suppose any chance is better than none- but if I was to purchase such a back-up I would certainly expect a video clip to watch with instruction explained- for better preparation.

SMiles

[larsrulz 0]

I think in the case of a Wuffo emergency rig that it is acceptable that as long as they get a canopy over their head and can somewhat stear the thing (i.e. not hit other buildings or the one they just jumped out of), then that is enough. Worrying about a broken ankle is much less important than say not getting out of the burning building.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[Dougiefresh 0]

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smash window- pull heavy desk or something to attach static line to, close to window---, hook up static line, get the rig on and tighten adjustments- do up belly band- and hurl themself out.

Easier and quicker to find the damn stairs. A canopy won't do you a bit of good if you're burnt to a crisp.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[mnischalke 0]

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...if a wuffo could follow instruction by pictures only- re: smash window...

How bad would it suck if that's what the guy 6 floors directly above you was doing as you were hucking yourself out your own window. Or, if somebody just jumped (without a rig)from above you while you are under a canopy, that would suck too.

Come to think of it, if everybody in a big tall building had one of these things, imagine the BASE records you'd be setting with coincidental timing: "The first 250-way fixed object jump." Most buildings are so close it's tight flying one canopy to a hard landing area. Imagine hundreds more (oh, and all whuffos).

Rocket packs are the answer. Rocket packs and transporters like on Star Trek!

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[fundgh 0]

I think that in the case of 9/11, if you are hucking yourself out the window without a parachute, anything over your head would be good. Sometimes the stairs are not an option. I think straight down under a round with a static line would be the way to go. Nothing to operate, just hook it up, jump and pray.

...FUN FOR ALL!

[mjosparky 3]

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I think that in the case of 9/11, if you are hucking yourself out the window without a parachute, anything over your head would be good. Sometimes the stairs are not an option. I think straight down under a round with a static line would be the way to go. Nothing to operate, just hook it up, jump and pray.

Have you noticed that there are no lelicopters flying around or above most really bad high rise buildings? The terminal activity can be as high as 2000 fpm + -. I spent 30 years as a firefighter and feel an escape rig might be an option, but a piss poor one with very little chance of survival. jmo
Breaking the exterior glass would be just the first problem. It is very thick tempered glass and I doubt if it could be broken with a chair. I have tried it with a fire ax without success.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[fundgh 0]

I have never seen lelicopters, except in movies (I know what you mean though)

Did you mean thermals or terminals? Are the thermals going to cause major problems with round canopies designed for such exits?

I imagine it would be hard to get out of the window, but people have managed to do it the past.

...FUN FOR ALL!

[Chrisky 0]

I think rounds don't make sense, the draft of the flames will suck you (or if you're "lucky", just the canopy) in. A PRO-canopy ist the only valid option, and even that may be insufficient.
Steering could easily be designed to be very docile, and "pull right, go right" should be good enough for a panikking whuffo...
Ads unreasonably high cost to the equasion though, i guess...

Lesson to be learned: work in the basement or go BASE..

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[smiles 0]

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Lesson to be learned: work in the basement or go BASE..

Exactly[:`][:`]...or atleast spend the bucks to make a few skydives to be better prepared....(if you are purchasing emergency rig)

SMiles

[PhreeZone 15]

Imagine 500 rounds all landing right at the bottom of the building. Now assume just a 10% chance of injury. That puts 50 people right at the bottom that are now needing care first before the rescue workers can even enter the building. In the case of the WTC imagine 5000 canopies all in the air at the same time. Updrafts, down drafts and lack of control make flying a parachute next to a burning building dangerous.

Think of the expence and injuries on false alarms. Alarms accidently get set off, some one things they are trapped and breaks a window, everyone around them does the same. Soon word spreads to floors up and down that they need to escape. Broken windows, broken legs and mass chaos over a false alarm.

Not to mention that the designs being marketed last year were nothing more then paraglider reserves packed into a sleve. Paraglider reserves are ment to provide more drag to a canopy that can not be cutaway to provide a surviavable landing. They are not vented at the apex so that ossolate wildly, (could slam you back into the building as it swings you around) are not gaurenteed to open in a certian distance so you might streamer into the ground and lots of other issues.

At least riggers have a new source of income unless the factory says only they can repack them.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mjosparky 3]

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I have never seen lelicopters, except in movies (I know what you mean though)

Did you mean thermals or terminals? Are the thermals going to cause major problems with round canopies designed for such exits?

I imagine it would be hard to get out of the window, but people have managed to do it the past.

I think you what I mean in both cases. I feel you would have less than 5% survival rate and half of those would die before help could get to them.
As Phree pointed out, many would be used and the user killed when they were not needed.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riddler 0]

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Breaking the exterior glass would be just the first problem.

I've seen people chuck their office chairs full-force at those windows, and those chairs bounce back like it's bullet-proof glass.

I don't think parachutes are a very adequate escape system. #1 people don't know how to use them. #2 trying to get a parachute for every person in a building would be a logistics nightmare - kinda like how the Titanic didn't have enough lifeboats.

There is a Japanese fire escape system that looks feasible. Maybe you should just buy one of those?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[cvfd1399 0]

I attended a class on building blast effects in Indiana a few months ago. The largest initial danger in a explosion outside a building is flying glass. So new buildings, and older buildings are now having a pretty thick coating applied to the windows to reduce the chance of the window breaking, along with blast curtians that look like the sun shades people put in their car to block the glare for a baby in a car seat. Here is the problem. We watched videos of 200lb Anfo blasts at 20 yds that only shook the window like plexiglass. They also did a test with different thickness coatings on windows, and had a firefighter challange to see who could break the window first. They used axes, mawls, hooks, circular(k12) saws, and even tried freezing it with cryo liquid and hitting it with a ax, and the quickest time was a min 15 seconds with the circular saw, and the glass melted on the blade when he cut it.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Not to mention that the designs being marketed last year were nothing more then paraglider reserves packed into a sleve. Paraglider reserves are ment to provide more drag to a canopy that can not be cutaway to provide a surviavable landing. They are not vented at the apex so that ossolate wildly, (could slam you back into the building as it swings you around) are not gaurenteed to open in a certian distance so you might streamer into the ground and lots of other issues.

I got the sense that these guys were cashing in by selling a product that virtually no one would ever need to use and likely wouldn't be successful in using if the day came. It doesn't get much slimier. And can you imagine that big time exec saying good-bye to his admin?

I don't think they'd be taxing rescue services any more than if they just jumped to their deaths, though. Certainly if I had the option there, I would have taken it. Any chance at life is worth it.

[Chrisky 0]

Did they try one of these hardened-point hammers they use to have in buses? (at least they do in germany) They are intended to shatter the glass by channelling the entire srike force into a single tiny spot, the result is if you only slightly knock the hammer against a window it will shatter. I know that we are talking worlds apart in windows here, so just curious?
These Hirise-windows need to be some bad stuff, you wouldn't want to have an open window in 150m height due to some dump bird...

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[cvfd1399 0]

Yes it is called a pick head axe, it is a 6-8 lb axe that has the same point on one side of it, and then a regular axe blade on the other side. All you could do with it is chop a line 4 times to make a square I think it took the guy 15 minutes.

[pchapman 262]

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Not to mention that the designs being marketed last year were nothing more then paraglider reserves packed into a sleve. Paraglider reserves are ment to provide more drag to a canopy that can not be cutaway to provide a surviavable landing. They are not vented at the apex so that ossolate wildly, (could slam you back into the building as it swings you around) are not gaurenteed to open in a certian distance so you might streamer into the ground and lots of other issues.

Just to expand on the above comment, and not on all the rest of the argument:

Most of the building rescue chutes marketed did seem to be based on paraglider reserves. Most were rounds; one was a Rogallo design. There are a couple of the latter certified in the paragliding world. That's an interesting step between having an unsteerable round (most but not all paragliding round reserves are unsteerable rounds), and having a ram air (with its forward speed and steering ability, which may or may not be beneficial to whuffo users).

I think one or two of the marketed designs were based on round BASE canopies (as used for water jumps).

Paragliding rounds DO normally have apex vents. But since they usually have a pull-down apex for fast inflation and low descent rate, yes, they can be more prone to oscillations than a round skydiving reserve, depending on the design, bridle length, and conditions of use.

Paragliding reserves may not undergo certification testing as extensive as for FAA TSO'd reserves, but any commercially successful ones (at least in Europe) do undergo a certification process that involves drop tests for structural integrity at a particular speed, and tests for descent rate. Generally they are designed for very quick opening, given the low altitude and speed environment they are usually used in.