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boomslang

I have to second guess this serious advice, but again, I'm not sure... I would really like some input. Thank you.

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O.K. My background very quickly. I have been jumping for about four years, with a few months gaps twice. I have roughly 411 skydives right now and a C-License. I train almost always in freefly, mostly sitfly with some headdown work, and I have jumped a wingsuit, a Phantom 2, about 25 times. I have made mistakes with altitude awareness myself and have trained for the specific scenario below more thoroughly because of an experience I had a few months ago, when I realized that I was at 1650' and I went for my main instinctively. I ended up with only my main out and I was very lucky to have my canopy open so quickly.

I saw this video and it has raised a question that I have thought about before, but not exactly from this angle I am bringing up.

Here is the video:

http://www.iloveskydiving.org/view/videos/friday-freakout-skydiver-nearly-impacts-mountain/

Here is the reply to the video from that website:

(I underscored what I wanted your input on. This is the only reason I created this thread.)


Holy [email protected]%, this is intense! This video should serve as a reminder to always maintain altitude awareness, deploy your reserve when you’re this low, and always spot – even if you’re not the first group exiting… especially in the mountains. Their audidbles and AADs didn’t help in this situation because they were set for a landing area at a much lower altitude, and drifting in freefall may have also been a contributing factor. If anything, learn from this video to avoid the same mistakes; it could’ve ended much worse. Blue skies and soft landings everyone. Be safe!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright. I trained myself, very thoroughly after that experience, to go for my reserve and not my main if either of these two scenarios presented:

1. I was at a low altitude again, still in freefall with no attempt to deploy yet, because of a malfunction of equipment (I have set both audibles to go off at 5k, 3.5k, and 1.8k -- one method of training being if I hear the asystole-like beep that goes off at 1.8k, I go immediately for my reserve).

2. I was at a low altitude, also still in freefall with no attempt to deploy yet, because of lack of focus and complacency.

Now, in both situations I believe that the best course of action, based on the best chance of survival and disregarding anything not mechanical in nature, would be to deploy your reserve -- being the nature of the reserve canopy's faster deployment system. My question is this and the scenario to explain it is this:

>I am in freefall and I turn to look at the ground and my altimeter at the same time. I read 1500'.

1. I know from past experience that my initial, and most importantly instinctive reaction, is to pitch my main.
2. I know the above is absolutely what everyone else has ever done without exception to my knowledge, no matter what currency or how many jumps they have.

My Question, or I guess, argument is this: Why am I training myself to make a decision (to pull my reserve at a given moment) that will take up time in the air that I absolutely need to save my life, when my initial instinct from both hundreds of jumps and the shock of the low altitude will most likely end up with me pitching my main. If I in fact am able to pull off pitching my reserve through a lot of training it should take time to think about the situation, even if it is 1 second or less.

Watch that video again when he turns to look at the ground and see if he had 1 more second of freefall to make that crucial instinctive pitch, even 1/8 of a second, and if that were me and I had stopped and thought for a split second to go for my main or reserve from my practice, whether it was technically the correct move to give me the best chance of survival not being the question, my training to go for my reserve may have killed me. How many of us would pitch our main faster than our reserve, going 130 mph towards the ground and just realizing how low we were. My guess is that most of us would find the main a lot faster to activate.

(I mean, how much practice would be necessary to override that instinctive reaction that has proved itself true over and over again)

I have just never thought about it that way before. Maybe pitching my main and going with my instincts, which I probably won't be able to override in the first place, would be the best course of action -- and then dealing with a possible AAD two-out after I my main is either open or opening. Should I "deploy [my] reserve when [I'm] low..."?

Just a thought.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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I guess it just comes down to how much more complicated do you want your procedures to be. Every complication requires attention and time.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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It strikes me that you are putting a huge amount of thought and planning and consideration into the wrong thing. You seem to be admitting to a very very very serious problem, and IMO it seems like you are trying to figure out a way to buy yourself a measly extra second to deal with the consequences the next time it happens. (But what do I know? I'm just a noob.)

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So let me ask why you're spending so much energy thinking about what to do at 1,600 feet without a parachute over your head rather than thinking about ways to avoid finding yourself at 1,600 feet without a parachute over your head? Seems like your energy could be better spent on figuring out what it is that's causing you to (in your own words) "make mistakes with altitude awareness."

If you're still having challenges with altitude awareness in general, why do you feel comfortable adding additional complexity to your skydives (like wingsuits and, based on your profile and other posts, a camera)?

Altitude awareness is pretty much the number one thing we're taught in this sport from Day 1. If you're regularly having trouble with that, maybe it's time to refocus on the basics.

And to (sort of) address your original question, though I think it's the wrong question to be asking - there's a reason I keep my audible's final warning at 2,000. If I ever, ever hear that noise in freefall before I've taken any action, I still have time to do the "instinctive" move of throwing out my main in enough time to avoid spooking my AAD. It means that occasionally I hear the 2,000 foot warning at line stretch (usually only on a bigger-way jump), but I have yet to hear it in freefall. I plan to keep it that way.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Well the most important thing is to never let yourself get that low. The mountain video is probably a much different scenario than you will likely find yourself on jumping at your home DZ. That video was a spotting issue as far as I recall where the pilot was using a GPS and thought the jumpers were going to be doing some mountain swooping.

All that being said, when you find yourself low I think like you said it is still instinct to deploy your main. The one thing you need to do is get something out, or hope your AAD (if you have one) functions properly if you do freeze up. At terminal you don't have time to be thinking, you need to react.

While it would probably be best to deploy your reserve in theory, I think if it is not instinct ("I am below my hard deck, go to reserve") you could spend the rest of your life trying to figure it out.

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It strikes me that you are putting a huge amount of thought and planning and consideration into the wrong thing. You seem to be admitting to a very very very serious problem, and IMO it seems like you are trying to figure out a way to buy yourself a measly extra second to deal with the consequences the next time it happens. (But what do I know? I'm just a noob.)



I saw that reply to the video about 2 minutes before I began writing this thread.

And yes, it is a serious matter, because new skydivers, like yourself, are being told these things as you learn your skills to survive in this sport, and the only way to clear up questions is talking with each other from experience. This is not a large community.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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O.K.

I don't think that I got the point across through the first post.

This is only if a scenario presents itself if you are within range where your AAD may go off depending on circumstances out of your control, regardless of mistakes, so please do not start a debate about altitude awareness. That is why I underlined what this thread was about in the first post... it is about the decision to learn to go for the reserve at that altitude in the first place.

And yes, I know that they were in the mountains with wind drift and in the wrong location.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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If you're still having challenges with altitude awareness in general

Altitude awareness is pretty much the number one thing we're taught in this sport from Day 1. If you're regularly having trouble with that, maybe it's time to refocus on the basics.



Have you ever lost altitude awareness? At all? Never in your whole career? Yes, I have, and I responded to it by taking it very seriously when it happened. I do not care if you have or not, I outlined in my post that I had, and that is why I took precautions. It is not a problem so do not presume to know me as if you jump with me on a regular basis.

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And to (sort of) address your original question, though I think it's the wrong question to be asking - there's a reason I keep my audible's final warning at 2,000. If I ever, ever hear that noise in freefall before I've taken any action, I still have time to do the "instinctive" move of throwing out my main in enough time to avoid spooking my AAD. It means that occasionally I hear the 2,000 foot warning at line stretch (usually only on a bigger-way jump), but I have yet to hear it in freefall. I plan to keep it that way.



Well, you didn't answer it. Don't plan on trying either. Do what you wish with your audible, and I will do what I wish with mine.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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Moderator, please close this thread. I am not replying to this anymore. This is out-of-hand with assumptions and off-topic discussion.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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And to (sort of) address your original question, though I think it's the wrong question to be asking - there's a reason I keep my audible's final warning at 2,000. If I ever, ever hear that noise in freefall before I've taken any action, I still have time to do the "instinctive" move of throwing out my main in enough time to avoid spooking my AAD. It means that occasionally I hear the 2,000 foot warning at line stretch (usually only on a bigger-way jump), but I have yet to hear it in freefall. I plan to keep it that way.



Why do you think that I have a 5k and 3.5 k set?

5k = breakoff

3.5k = pull time

1.8k = a line of defense in case something were to go seriously wrong in the jump, such as a bag-lock, and it would help to keep me in the loop with the 120 mph total mal.... think about it.

I lost altitude awareness and I took it very seriously so back off.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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I think I get where you are coming from. Correct me if I am wrong in my summary.

Below your hard-deck you should go straight to reserve. Having experienced being below your hard-deck, instinct took over and you went to main. You now mentally prepare for a repeat scenario (i.e. practice your EP's) but are concerned that it will take longer to run through the mental process than to simply pitch your main.

My highly unqualified take on it is that as you are now prepared mentally, you will go to reserve quickly and it will not carry a time penalty.

By the way at around jump 40, I had recently swapped from an altimeter in meters to feet. I had a brain fart and lost altitude awareness/waited till 1000 to deploy my main. When I realised that I was well into the red zone on the altimeter, I deployed my main which was a C9 so not a problem.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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While it would probably be best to deploy your reserve in theory, I think if it is not instinct ("I am below my hard deck, go to reserve") you could spend the rest of your life trying to figure it out.



Yea, that is the conclusion I came to, but I wanted input, as the title stated. Obviously, I was wrong to come to this forum and expect something different than what happened in half an hour from the start of this thread.

Thank you for that post by the way. Best wishes.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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I think I get where you are coming from. Correct me if I am wrong in my summary.

Below your hard-deck you should go straight to reserve. Having experienced being below your hard-deck, instinct took over and you went to main. You now mentally prepare for a repeat scenario (i.e. practice your EP's) but are concerned that it will take longer to run through the mental process than to simply pitch your main.



This is a hypothetical question. I have never had a two-out and I had a jump where I lost altitude awareness and pitched instinctively and my alti showed 1650.



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My highly unqualified take on it is that as you are now prepared mentally you will go to reserve quickly and it will not carry a time penalty.



I was questioning the time penalty's worth. That was kinda the whole question.

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By the way at around jump 40 I had recently swapped from an altimeter in meters to feet. I had a brain fart and lost altitude awareness/waited till 1000 to deploy my main. When I realised that I was well into the red zone on the altimeter I deployed my main which was a C9 so not a problem.



Very glad to hear everything turned out o.k.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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Have you ever lost altitude awareness? At all? Never in your whole career? Yes, I have, and I responded to it by taking it very seriously when it happened. I do not care if you have or not, I outlined in my post that I had, and that is why I took precautions. It is not a problem so do not presume to know me as if you jump with me on a regular basis.



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Do what you wish with your audible, and I will do what I wish with mine.



Hey now, chill out on the defensiveness. I responded to exactly what you wrote. One time is different from "I have made mistakes with altitude awareness myself." Mistakes = plural, so I interpreted that as a recurring problem.

So far, no, I've not ever completely lost altitude awareness. Have I opened lower than I would like/planned? Yes, but always with the awareness that I was lower than I planned to be (traffic at some point during the breakoff/tracking process is generally the cause of that).

I'm not saying it'll never happen - I'm human and I do make mistakes, which is why I shared my point about what I do with my audible and why I've made that choice. But since you seem to have some hostility about my sharing that (based on your response), perhaps I ought not to have bothered. :D

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Well, you didn't answer it.



Okay, here's an answer. I have thought about what I'd do at 1,600 feet without a parachute, and in various scenarios. The general rule is I would like to think I'm going to go for my reserve.

If I'm in an aircraft at 1,600 and the pilot says "Get out" in that time between "Get out" and getting to the door I should have enough time to look at my alti and decide which handle to pull (and at 1,600 feet it would be the silver one since that's right at the borderline and unless I'm 100% sure that plane's still flying straight and level, there's a good chance I'll be even lower by the time I leave).

If I'm at 1,600 feet under a malfunctioning main that I'm not confident I can land safely, I'm getting rid of it. Hopefully by that point I'm already executing my EPs since my hard deck is at 1,800.

If I'm at 1,600 feet in freefall, I would hope that I would go for my reserve, but there's a good chance that I, like most everyone else, would go for my main. My main opens fairly fast, but that's right at the "spook the AAD" altitude, so I might end up with two out. But since I'd rather end up with two out than none out, I figure I'm still better off going instinctively for my main than wasting time trying to decide.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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I was questioning the time penalty's worth. That was kinda the whole question.



I think it is worth it (again note that I am not an instructor/experienced). Most of us will progress through the sport to having higher wingloadings and thus parachutes that are more likely to malfunction, secondly modern parachutes open more slowly (as a general rule).

I wonder how many people who have been low have actually dumped their reserve...
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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Because some people seem to not be fully absorbing my first post in this thread I will break this down as simple as possible.

1. I saw the video and the talking of going for reserve when you are low came into question when I saw that he had, basically, saved his life by less than 1/8th of a second.

2. I stopped to think about it.

3. I started writing about what I thought in this thread.

4. The question of this thread was whether adding the training, which may become a possible liability in a bad scenario, would help, or if it should even be taught in the first place if instinct is to go for the main every time. And, is it even possible to override that instinct reaction.

Personally, I think the instinct reaction and quick critical thinking is what keeps people alive in this sport, and the people that cannot make the correct ones and be calmer under the pressure leave or don't make it.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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I watched that video a while back, he dodged a bullet...luck was on his side.

If the ground had been flat and he had not followed the valley seam after opening, you are looking at about 1 - 1.5 second canopy ride.

That means if the canopy sniveled 1/4 second longer he'd inherit the earth.

Form the video, if he would have been a 100 meters over more, he would have impacted either prior to or during deployment, another 1/2 second before exiting and may have been right over the peak...cancel Christmas.

I think you are asking the wrong questions...!

When you put yourself that far into the reapers corner it's a crap-shoot no matter what handle you pull.

You need to be analyzing WHY & HOW he got into that situation in the first place.

If I were him... I would be very concerned about my altitude awareness and my spotting skills.

You put yourself in a position in which SEVERAL fraction of a second variables were the difference in your survival, living through that is the exception not the rule.

If that had happened to ME, I would for the rest of my Skydiving career work toward taking the steps to insure I never put myself in that situation again.

The main vs. reserve question is kind of a moot point, either handle was a 50/50 shot at best...that's a dead man walking, learn from it and don't go there.


~Regarding the question of muscle memory vs. thought, if you don't constantly train yourself to react properly and often differently to various possible scenarios your body will do what it's been doing.

I keep a picture in my head of a demo jump I was on years ago, exiting low because of weather...the guy ahead of me went one time for his main, the handle was buried in the pouch...in one smooth action he was under a deploying reserve. Nobody 'thinks' that fast, it was all reaction.

He had mentally prepared for just such a situation, when it happened he reacted as prepared...I was impressed and work to have skills like that.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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No matter how much you ask for no thread drift, don't be surprised that it happens! :D. The force that drives thread drift should be harnessed as an energy resource.

I think that a small amount of time delay to decide to pull reserve may be compensated by the quicker opening. Even if that isn't exactly true, at least you won't have to deal with a 2 out, so that makes a slightly lower reserve activation altitude OK, as long as you aren't super low when you finally pull.

Did you have an audible for the wingsuit jump, and did it work? it isn't clear if you did from your response. I've found that I hear mine much better when wearing earplugs, I think that is a common experience. (see, there's more thread drift...)

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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One time is different from "I have made mistakes with altitude awareness myself." Mistakes = plural, so I interpreted that as a recurring problem.



It felt very much like you were implying that this was an ongoing issue, which it is not. It has happened once where it was dangerous, other times I was being held on to an instructor, and stepping off a cessna in AFF. That is all.

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I'm not saying it'll never happen - I'm human and I do make mistakes, which is why I shared my point about what I do with my audible and why I've made that choice. But since you seem to have some hostility about my sharing that (based on your response), perhaps I ought not to have bothered. :D



I think we both took each other's remarks down incorrectly and I apologize. I do not want to get into a personal debate here, I do not have the time right now and frankly, I do not want to waste my time or energy on that. I wanted a little input, and what you said immediately put me in the defensive.

And yes, please do not comment again. I want this thread closed.

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Okay, here's an answer. I have thought about what I'd do at 1,600 feet without a parachute, and in various scenarios. The general rule is I would like to think I'm going to go for my reserve.

If I'm in an aircraft at 1,600 and the pilot says "Get out" in that time between "Get out" and getting to the door I should have enough time to look at my alti and decide which handle to pull (and at 1,600 feet it would be the silver one since that's right at the borderline and unless I'm 100% sure that plane's still flying straight and level, there's a good chance I'll be even lower by the time I leave).

If I'm at 1,600 feet under a malfunctioning main that I'm not confident I can land safely, I'm getting rid of it. Hopefully by that point I'm already executing my EPs since my hard deck is at 1,800.

If I'm at 1,600 feet in freefall, I would hope that I would go for my reserve, but there's a good chance that I, like most everyone else, would go for my main. My main opens fairly fast, but that's right at the "spook the AAD" altitude, so I might end up with two out. But since I'd rather end up with two out than none out, I figure I'm still better off going instinctively for my main than wasting time trying to decide.



Do you realize that this has nothing to do with what the thread is for... like, at all.

This thread isn't about sitting there and stopping time if you turn and look at the ground and it is coming at you like that. You can't stop and think about what you just wrote. It is about what to do when you have more adrenaline surge through you than you have ever had before. What is the best course of action? Is the action that is being advised the best? That is the only question I brought up. That is it. Stop writing. Read the post I wrote before this and it will save you a lot of time.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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Don't worry about the implied criticism too much. It's just the way it is here, that all sorts of related issues are brought up and questioned, and alternative ideas explored, rather than dealing with one very specific question one is asking about.

Your original question was a good one, even if a bit wordy, one of those issues that has been in the back of my mind because I don't have a good answer for it.

I've seen someone write how by the time he thought, "I'm low, go for reserve!", his right hand had already dumped the main.

Maybe try the occasional jump where, altitude & traffic etc. permitting, you actually put a hand onto your reserve handle first? Maybe when not deploying too high, to give a slightly more realistic sight picture.

Or throw in a quick back loop or roll first to help give a slightly more sudden view, as if suddenly looking down to find oneself low.

This could be a good little emergency procedures practice for most people. Gotta try it myself too.

(If someone is a habitual high puller, they can take it lower occasionally to get used to the lower altitude, even if they don't want it to be an everyday thing. )


But then, as you question, how often does one need to do this to build it into one's instinctive procedures? Is once a season enough? Once per 50 jumps? Who knows.

It might not have to be very often at all, just that it is something one has actually done a few times to make it more than totally un-natural. When done occasionally, it may then also stick in the back of the mind as an option that comes to mind more easily when time is tight.


EDIT:

Nigel99 -- That 1000m vs. 1000ft incident is a great tale! Worthy of the 'stupid things I have done' or 'scary stories from the old days' threads.

Boomslang -- Give nwflyer a break. That last bit of hers that you quoted does relate to the thread. Like you and I, she also hopes she'd go to her reserve quickly when low, but we all have that nagging doubt we might toss the main before moving our left hand.

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I watched that video a while back, he dodged a bullet...luck was on his side.

If the ground had been flat and he had not followed the valley seam after opening, you are looking at about 1 - 1.5 second canopy ride.

That means if the canopy sniveled 1/4 second longer he'd inherit the earth.

Form the video, if he would have been a 100 meters over more, he would have impacted either prior to or during deployment, another 1/2 second before exiting and may have been right over the peak...cancel Christmas.

I think you are asking the wrong questions...!

When you put yourself that far into the reapers corner it's a crap-shoot no matter what handle you pull.

You need to be analyzing WHY & HOW he got into that situation in the first place.

If I were him... I would be very concerned about my altitude awareness and my spotting skills.

You put yourself in a position in which SEVERAL fraction of a second variables were the difference in your survival, living through that is the exception not the rule.

If that had happened to ME, I would for the rest of my Skydiving career work toward taking the steps to insure I never put myself in that situation again.

The main vs. reserve question is kind of a moot point, either handle was a 50/50 shot at best...that's a dead man walking, learn from it and don't go there.


~Regarding the question of muscle memory vs. thought, if you don't constantly train yourself to react properly and often differently to various possible scenarios your body will do what it's been doing.

I keep a picture in my head of a demo jump I was on years ago, exiting low because of weather...the guy ahead of me went one time for his main, the handle was buried in the pouch...in one smooth action he was under a deploying reserve. Nobody 'thinks' that fast, it was all reaction.

He had mentally prepared for just such a situation, when it happened he reacted as prepared...I was impressed and work to have skills like that.



I agree in absolute. I asked a very specific question and I am regretting bringing it up in this forum because I know these threads always, without any doubt, unless they are in a very specific forum, de-rail. This is not about 15k to 3k. This is about after that. The moment nothing can be taken back and no matter how many times you (not you) have said "I will never be in that position," it is about that time it happens to someone and they don't have time to even say ****, how did I end up at this altitude, ok.. so what do I do. I asked a simple debate about whether training to go for silver at that altitude is worth the risk basically. Can we close this thread now please.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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Don't worry about the implied criticism too much. It's just the way it is here, that all sorts of related issues are brought up and questioned, and alternative ideas explored, rather than dealing with one very specific question one is asking about.

Your original question was a good one, even if a bit wordy, one of those issues that has been in the back of my mind because I don't have a good answer for it.

I've seen someone write how by the time he thought, "I'm low, go for reserve!", his right hand had already dumped the main.

Maybe try the occasional jump where, altitude & traffic etc. permitting, you actually put a hand onto your reserve handle first? Maybe when not deploying too high, to give a slightly more realistic sight picture.

Or throw in a quick back loop or roll first to help give a slightly more sudden view, as if suddenly looking down to find oneself low.

This could be a good little emergency procedures practice for most people. Gotta try it myself too.

(If someone is a habitual high puller, they can take it lower occasionally to get used to the lower altitude, even if they don't want it to be an everyday thing. )


But then, as you question, how often does one need to do this to build it into one's instinctive procedures? Is once a season enough? Once per 50 jumps? Who knows.

It might not have to be very often at all, just that it is something one has actually done a few times to make it more than totally un-natural. When done occasionally, it may then also stick in the back of the mind as an option that comes to mind more easily when time is tight.



That was a very insightful post. Thank you.

I have made 6+ actual pre-deployment procedures as you described, and that is why, when I read that reply to the video I has to ask... It has been on my mind.

I think that it would take more practice than is practical to really override that natural response of pitching the main.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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I've seen someone write how by the time he thought, "I'm low, go for reserve!", his right hand had already dumped the main.

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To address that~

How many people actually practice pulling handles?

I do to an extent, 100 times a week before I jump...sounds excessive but it's a habit I got into when I started, muscle memory was something I got into through Karate training.

I put my hands out as if in free-fall then go through various scenarios in my head...some require a cutaway some don't. The point is I have my hands on the handles 100 times before jumping...it takes less that 10 minutes.

I also somewhat imprinted in my mind that I worship the big silver handle on my left, as my aw shit salvation.

When things go south that's my FIRST reaction, go for silver...I got hit pretty hard in free-fall once, it hurt like Hell & flipped me over on my back, as I took the 1/2 second to sort out what happened I noticed my thumb was already in the D-ring.

You DO what you train for.











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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No matter how much you ask for no thread drift, don't be surprised that it happens! :D. The force that drives thread drift should be harnessed as an energy resource.



I agree. I know one forum in particular.

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I think that a small amount of time delay to decide to pull reserve may be compensated by the quicker opening. Even if that isn't exactly true, at least you won't have to deal with a 2 out, so that makes a slightly lower reserve activation altitude OK, as long as you aren't super low when you finally pull.



I also agree that the reserve is the best one to hit but it was more an impossible question of a very complicated response to a situation, and as we can see from the video, his response to the situation was his instinct, which was his main, and he was pretty lucky to say the least.

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Did you have an audible for the wingsuit jump, and did it work? it isn't clear if you did from your response. I've found that I hear mine much better when wearing earplugs, I think that is a common experience. (see, there's more thread drift...)



I always wore an audible for my wingsuit jumps. I really enjoy wingsuits. I picked it up very quickly and I did notice that the audible was much louder, well, I was falling at less than half the speed that I normally do so it should be louder.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands jellyside down. A cat glued to some jelly toast will hover in quantum indecision.

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I agree in absolute. I asked a very specific question and I am regretting bringing it up in this forum because I know these threads always, without any doubt, unless they are in a very specific forum, de-rail. This is not about 15k to 3k. This is about after that. The moment nothing can be taken back and no matter how many times you (not you) have said "I will never be in that position," it is about that time it happens to someone and they don't have time to even say ****, how did I end up at this altitude, ok.. so what do I do. I asked a simple debate about whether training to go for silver at that altitude is worth the risk basically. Can we close this thread now please.


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No...I think you're getting us all back on track regarding the meat of your question.

Let's run with it awhile, it's an important topic! ;)











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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