Re: [RhondaLea] this is as bad as it gets

[badenhop 0]

Hello Rhonda,
I sent this PM out a couple days ago,
to a mutual friend, after Coombsey....

>>brace yourself, the season has just begun<<

Friends, what are you going to do to stay off the list?

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[RhondaLea 3]

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Hello Rhonda,
I sent this PM out a couple days ago,
to a mutual friend, after Coombsey....

>>brace yourself, the season has just begun<<

Friends, what are you going to do to stay off the list?

Y'know, of all the people I know, I think you have the longest list of dead friends. I used to wonder how you stood it.

Now I wonder how many of us are turning into you.

I have been around long enough to remember a time when base was considered extremely dangerous. Now it seems like everyone and his brother--and his sister too--is "into base." I don't quite know how that happened, but I think I've reached the limit of my personal "fatality threshhold."

It's going to get worse before it gets better, because there are a lot of folks out there who just can't quite wrap their minds around the idea that it really can happen to them.

Take care of yourself, Avery.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[micro 0]

I made the decision tonight that I will not get "into BASE." I've wanted to for a long time, but it's not for me. When I heard about S tonight and my wife and I talked about it, I told her that it was always my life goal to get a BASE # and jump some of the famous sites in the world one the kids were grown. Not anymore. I respect you BASE jumpers for what you do, but I now know it just ain't for me.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[Zennie 0]

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there are a lot of folks out there who just can't quite wrap their minds around the idea that it really can happen to them

I've always known it could happen to me, what I'm having a lot of trouble wrapping my mind around right now is it happening to the people I care about.

I'm pretty much in a daze at the moment.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[RhondaLea 3]

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there are a lot of folks out there who just can't quite wrap their minds around the idea that it really can happen to them

I've always known it could happen to me, what I'm having a lot of trouble wrapping my mind around right now is it happening to the people I care about.

The people you care about would feel the same way you feel right now if it happened to you. It's not only important to be very careful and to treat this sport with the utmost respect because it can kill you. It's also important because of the broken hearts you will leave behind.

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I'm pretty much in a daze at the moment.

I know. Me too.

I owe you for the time I knew her, Ted. Shannon was a blessing and a gift, and I'm grateful for the time we were friends. I just wish it had been longer.

rl

[tommyh 0]

What am I going to do to stay off the list? I don't know.

My recommendation to everyone: Turn off the video camera.

I think we all know, wether we want to admit it or not, we all let our ego's get out of control when there is a possibility of creating a rad video of ourselves. from what I can tell, this doesn't seem to be a factor in the latest TF fatality, but we have all seen people excercise poor judgement all for the sake of some gnar gnar video. Would yo have done that gainer had there not been a camera on you? how about that loooong delay? isn't it enough just to experience the freefall?

Turn the camera off. Just try to enjoy the freefall.
be safe for fucks sake!

I've wanted to say this for a long time

[lifewithoutanet 0]

We all have a lot to think about after this weekend. But I'm going to put something out there that I think has been missing... Jumping straight into incident analysis is skipping a very important step. Now is not the time to question anybody else's actions or reasons for jumping but your own. It would seem that the immediate reaction would be to first focus on the mistakes, situation or consequences of another jumper--or in this weekend's horrible turn of events, jumpers--but that puts one in a false sense of security because hindsight being 20/20, we fool ourselves into thinking we know what we'd do in those circumstances, or worse, we convince ourselves that we'd never put ourselves on that load, or into that situation on a jump. Don't dismiss the possibility because "it couldn't happen to me". Absolutes are a horrible thing to live by, and what you think you'd never do as a newbie, you may find yourself doing as you evolve. Evolution progresses with few measurable distinctions. Are you ready? Or do you just think you are?

Time spent analyzing someone else's actions, preparedness or motivations is time better spent first focused on yourself--NOW. For these are things we each individually control, but can only hope to influence in others. Face it, no one is going to do any of this for you! Once you understand for yourself, why we do what it is we do--or for those of you who don't, yet, why you THINK we do what we do or why you THINK you want to--then the real shitstorm of thought begins. Understanding that death is a possible consequence of BASE is NOT understanding the risks involved. That's merely accepting the possible outcomes and consequences. If that's as far as you get, you shouldn't be jumping.

Have the courage to be truly, brutally honest with yourself. Do you understand why you jump or why you want to? How many times has the reason changed since you started? What motivates you? If it's anything or anyone other than yourself, you shouldn't be jumping. Do you feel the same now as your first time? Have you done EVERYTHING to prepare yourself for the inevitable times that you open with multiple line twists, facing the object you just left, hopelessly unable to reach your intended LZ--and as perfectly as it could be put--with your canopy on fire? Or has it just worked so well the last few dozen times that you're "ready" to try something new?

Now that you've done this...hopefully when you analyze an incident, you'll do so with a different perspective, maybe one that's a little more humble.

The path to saving each-other starts with saving ourselves. Please, all of you, put forth your best foot every time. It's not just the first step that's a doozy.

-C.

[RhondaLea 3]

Your post should be permanently stickied at the top of this forum.

rl

[lifewithoutanet 0]

Thank you, Rhonda. That's flattering, but it's simply wisdom I've picked up from others in this sport and nothing original or my own. A shame it's not as obvious as it should be, though.
-C.

[TVPB 0]

Sad Days.

It was not that long ago that number 1000 was handed out on the positive side of the ledger. I was more concerned at the time on who was getting number 100. Well here we are, almost. #99 has come far too quickly.

Your thoughts have been around for a long while. The problem is that they interfere with the progress that many people desire. When those thoughts have been made public, rejection is often the response.

r..e incident analysis. I think it is VERY IMPORTANT to understand the physics AND THE PSYCHOLOGY of incidents. Why should we look at other people and what they do / have done? And more importantly, why should we allow other people to look at us? For external perspective!!!

Most of us are often so caught up in our own little worlds that we don't see the detail that may have an unwanted affect on the outcome of our actions. When we OPENLY evaluate what others have done, it gives us a physical basis to confirm or alter our actions. The psychological is VERY IMPORTANT. Much more than the physical to some extent. If we can understand why certain actions were undertaken and why some decisions were made, it allows us to control the basis of our own thoughts. We can make decisions based on prior experience instead of learning as we do.

The classic cliche's that come to mind include: "you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes", learn from other's mistakes", etc.

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Understanding that death is a possible consequence of BASE is NOT understanding the risks involved. That's merely accepting the possible outcomes and consequences. If that's as far as you get, you shouldn't be jumping.

Thank goodness someone is listening. I've been trying to get that message across for a long while. A few things I'd like to add (again), whether people like to admit it ir not, there is a lot of detail that goes into each and every jump. This detail changes immensely depending on manouvres, techniques, personal skills/experiences/abilities, etc. The detail is also different for each jumper and each jump. The same exit point and site can present two totally different jumps in two days.

It's kind of like playing on a links (Seaside) golf course. You could play a 120m par 3 with a sand wedge in the morning and have to use a 3 wood in the afternoon. If it is a skins game and there is $1m riding on your shot, things have changed yet again. But it is the same hole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you accept that this detail exists on each jump, you can then consciously make an effort to understand each component of the detail (i.e. reading winds at exit point, size of p/c dependant on delay, glide ratio required to make landing areas, etc). Once you start understanding each component of the jump, and then work our how to put it together in a sequential manner, you can then start placing conditions on each component of the detail (i.e if the canopy opens this way, I will/can - this is plan B stuff). Once you have worked all this out, you can actually start assessing what options are riskier than others (i.e. commencing deployment on a slider up jump 50 feet off the deck would definitely lead to a fatality, hence we need to commence higher, but we have too low airspeed, so we should pack slider up, etc).

etc.

I agree totally with one thing though - I think it is very important to understand why? Why are you jumping? Why are you doing the next jump? Why are you attempting the manouvres you have planned? Why? Your motivations may determine your outcome.

r.e. the incident analysis. I think this should be a natural thing for all intermediate and experienced jumpers. This is the feedback mechanism that tells us what we should / should not do.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[Bigwallmaster 0]

Dude. That's the best godamn thing I've ever read on this forum.

. . . After hearing about all this shit at the bridge this weekend, I'm glad I didn't make it up there. I know one of these days I will probably witness a BASE accident involving a fatality. It's so easy to watch a bunch of successful jumps from what is generally considered a soft object, only to start becoming a little more complacent about BASE.

As sad as it is, I've learned quite a bit from these incidents this weekend. . . .

Be safe everyone.

J.P.

[TVPB 0]

Quite apart from all the b/s I just wrote:

There is one thing I left out:

We are human. To err is to be human.

Enjoy more, err less. If at all possible.

To gfd - it seems by the posts that you were a wonderfully entertaining, loving, caring, living, person. Thank you. To all her friends and family, live with her spirit and passion and fun. Share it with others.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[tr027 0]

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Hello Rhonda,
I sent this PM out a couple days ago,
to a mutual friend, after Coombsey....

>>brace yourself, the season has just begun<<

Friends, what are you going to do to stay off the list?

IMO, apart from acquiring the technical understanding and skill, that maintaining a careful risk management system with a sustainable threshold level is key. People have differing levels of risk threshold, but only the ones that live to become old jumpers demonstrate a sustainable risk threshold.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[RhondaLea 3]

Let me give you some rough numbers to add to your theory.

In 1995, there were, I think 32 names on The List, the base numbers were in the low 400s, and an awful lot of people were still jumping gutter gear.

Eleven years later, we have 99 dead, and the base numbers are a little over 1000.

Now I realize that not everyone gets a base number, but that was true in 1995 too. And I am also aware that more people are making more jumps than they were in 1995.

But there is something very wrong with this picture, because with all the talk of risk managment and technique and all the brand new shiny gear that's not supposed to kill in and of itself, the fatality rate is ridiculous.

Which brings us back to the question that started the thread.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[klapaucius 0]

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Let me give you some rough numbers to add to your theory.

In 1995, there were, I think 32 names on The List, the base numbers were in the low 400s, and an awful lot of people were still jumping gutter gear.

Eleven years later, we have 99 dead, and the base numbers are a little over 1000.

Now I realize that not everyone gets a base number, but that was true in 1995 too. And I am also aware that more people are making more jumps than they were in 1995.

But there is something very wrong with this picture, because with all the talk of risk managment and technique and all the brand new shiny gear that's not supposed to kill in and of itself, the fatality rate is ridiculous.

Which brings us back to the question that started the thread.

Introduction to the DVD "Superterminal" is spine chilling now..

"Good kids. no harm to anyone, Quiet evening smoking pot, you know, there is a future. But next year half of them will be on the hard stuff and a year later 6 out of 10 will be dead"

Unfortunately things occasionally turn bad, with or without mistakes being made. There are packing errors, there are technical mistakes, some people assume higher risk (track close to the wall, do aerials, tricks etc). But some of the recent accidents "happened" and no amount of risk management (short of not jumping at all) would prevent them. Malfunctions happen and some turn bad.

Every jump has a "roll of the dice" component to it. The dice may have 1000, 5000, 10,000 facets, depending what you do and who you are, but it does not have a trillion of them.