Lying to manufactors,how comon?

[Faber 0]

I know there always has been some lying to manufactors about experience and mentors,but how comon is this?

I were told that a person who died resently had his rig delivered in a way that the manufactor didnt agree onto.

Now i read this:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=34968&d=1
if you dont want to clik then heres a copy paste:

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For Sale: Brand New Morpheus Tech Rig
Price: 2500 USD (OBO)

Shipping: Buyer Pays Shipping

GARGOYLE. 0 jumps. Built for me at 5" 10 1/2"- 160 pounds. Camo and black rig. Stainless steel. Big grab toggles. 245 sq ft Atair MDV chute all black(Great for night jumps) all black dacron lines besides red control lines. Reason of sale: well I thought I'd be tough and get a base rig... fortunately I went skydiving right after I got my brand new base rig and realized I have a lot to learn. One being control. The other, now having passed aff I need a rig!

I think if we dont tight up things we might find alot more dead people in the furture which wont help our sport in media and legal events...

what do you think?

Note:I know manufactors cant babysit the hole world,but its evrybodys interest to keep the list of deaths at a minimum...
I think we as a selfregulating group should start think about this..unless we want to be more hunted in the media and by the police..

Personaly i think the person in classifeilds does the right thing to sell this gear,but i wonder how he got it in the first place...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[MB38 0]

The unsolvable problem is that anybody can lie. I could email somebody about a rig tonight, buy it tomorrow and kill myself by friday.

I could also go to a gun shop, lie about my experience, buy a gun and accidentally blow my head off. Or I could go and buy a hang-glider, drive to San Diego and crash onto some nude beach aficionados below the cliffs. The list goes on.

People will always do stupid things. Unfortunately, BASE is one of those things that doesn't strike your average joe as incredibly dangerous until he's learned a thing or two about it. It also doesn't seem remarkably difficult... just jump and pull! That's all there is to it! Right?

The only thing that manufacturers could do is require referrals from past customers or people they know. If everybody had to have another jumper or two call the company before that company would make joe a rig... it might add some security. That said, if average joe really wants the rig... he can just tell his two whuffo buddies to vouch for him. Idiots travel in packs.

The only way that a manufacturer could *actually* be sure that they were selling a rig to a "qualified" jumper would be if there was a USPA equivalent for BASE. They could require the person's APOOOPA membership number or some nonsense like that. Lets hope that never happens.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[Faber 0]

i dont have a solution to this i just want people to think..

i dont think we should regulate ourself like USPA or similar(its againts our rules)..

Manufactors might could do more than they do today,but we has to rember that they do so as a living,asking them to regulate more(if they agreed in this)would leed to more time hunting down the right info,which the rest of us then had to pay on the next rig,harness canopy etc etc and no one is interested in more expencive gear just becourse people dont think clearly or try to cheat..

But i think its a starting problem..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TVPB 0]

Faber Faber Faber.

You are now starting to sound like one of the old bastards in the sport.

The phenomenon you mention is not new. It is in fact as old as the manufacturers themselves.

The only difference now is that the market for the gear is growing so there are likely to be more people (absolute numbers) doing it. The ratio is probably the same.

After a while you just get despondent and say, "Oh well, they are adults and they have made a (sub)conscious decision to do it". "F&*%ing A^*^%holes".

Then you realise that these people are selfish, lazy, illogical people. They are ultimately responsible for their own lives. There are volumes of information out there and lots of generous people who are more than willing to help. But they choose not to seek or utilise that help. There is no logic to doing something like BASE jumping without the right training. I say f%&*& them and give them NO sympathy. Kick dirt over them, steal their gear and jump it, buy lots of beer with their money. For that is what they would want. Jump, party, have a good time.

p.s. at least the person you mention has made the effort to do AFF and has realised the work involved in getting to his/her original dream. There is hope.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[Faber 0]

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You are now starting to sound like one of the old bastards in the sport.

sorry about that,in fact im actualy just a pubby in this sport,but would hate seeing my objects getting burned and dislike to the sport as of a$$holes...

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Then you realise that these people are selfish, lazy, illogical people. They are ultimately responsible for their own lives.

but they have no right to impact at yours and mine life of BASE..

evryone in this sport can easily die.
when i started my BASEjourney Skypunk just finnished his..
I used to say "look at the deathlist it aint that big considered the time and the jumps that has been through years"..I has stopped counting dead people,i dont even has track on how many i had chatted to/spoken to that has died..

too many for sure...

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Kick dirt over them, steal their gear and jump it, buy lots of beer with their money. For that is what they would want. Jump, party, have a good time.

well you have a point there

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at least the person you mention has made the effort to do AFF and has realised the work involved in getting to his/her original dream. There is hope.

Yeah i also posted that i think..But not all is as smart as he is..

Just got me wondering..perhaps im getting old?? or sitting home makes me think..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Faber 0]

ive got a Q by pm

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Why would have you not edited the name of the manufacturer out. I know you jump their gear but this throws a bad light on them in particular instead of the industry in general.

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As i state in my post its not paticular at Morpheus.
I have jumped and spoken alot to Rob n Kathy and know how great guys they are and that they wont sell to persons below their creterias no matter how much mony theyre offered,i know the same about Marty at Asylum and and Karen at Apex(and mostlikely at the rest aswell thouse are just the once ive made deals whith).

What is wrong is not a dealers issue here its the people buying gear that lye and cheat so they can get gear the manufactors who dont want to sell to them..

Hope to clear up that im not pointing fingers at Neither Morpheus or other gear manufactors out there,its the people ordering im after..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

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The unsolvable problem is that anybody can lie.

Not so. Some manufacturers do background checks, and ask for references before they sell gear. I get reference check calls from manufacturers more than once a month, and I'm sure others do, too.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[MB38 0]

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The unsolvable problem is that anybody can lie.

Not so. Some manufacturers do background checks, and ask for references before they sell gear. I get reference check calls from manufacturers more than once a month, and I'm sure others do, too.

I thankfully stand corrected.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[Faber 0]

so does i,However some people still manege to cheat arround..

what im saying is that us the BASE comunity might need to open our eyes aswell.

And would like to say now that Morpheus name were up there,that Morpheus also do theese calls,but people still get arround.

Im just worryed about this,thats why i asked how comon it is...Im sure all manufactors has theese problems..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[reddevil1 0]

I sorry to say that base gear is so easy to get hold of, even if you have not started base jumping at all// eg 1 I want to buy a base canopy only off you to use skydiving to get the skill of flying a base canopy/////eg 2 I,m booked on a fjc and want my kit before i go there ,you can phone to check the fjc people,FJC PEOPLE yes Mr ### is booked on a course , base rig arrives before the course starts ,student never arrives at the fjc he dead trying the rig out first// how can you stop that// the only way is to sell person to person and do the checks your self by asking the questions there and then if you are not happy WALK and save a life.

The point of no return what a rush.

[cesslon 0]

I think that base rig sellers should pack the rig so its ready to go for extremly low jumps
that way if someone trys to freefall 100ft again they'll have a slight chance of hitting line stretch lol

[Faber 0]

i think they should pack them slider up and say so,or not pack them at all(that said i only think i got packed rigs as 2.nd hand
that way i hope to scare the most people to atleast know how to pack them self

But im buying from all 3 major manufactors,so it would be hard work to them to get the gear together

Stay safe
Stefan Faber