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skydvr18

MEET THE TANNING GUY

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Why don't you learn a little bit more about BASE before you try to argue this point? It's not a B...it's an S.

What is he doing wrong? Let me ask you again...what would you say if I showed up at your drop zone with a few skydivers, some wingsuits made out of a ripped-up canopy, and told you I was teaching people with no skydives to fly a wingsuit?

What is the guy doing wrong? He is threatening our S by doing stupid stuff like throwing people off with little knowledge himself. And if you were really interested, you would've been to THE BASE SITE to ready my post about this. A friend of mine, also a static line jumpmaster, had a student go in when the guy pushed off the strut, backflipped into the lines, got tangled in them, and died on impact.

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JP,

The larger question is really _whether_ we ought to seek government regulation.

This bridge is never going to be privately owned. The government will always retain the power to shut it down. The issue is whether it is better for BASE jumpers (in general) if:

a) we continue on with the status quo

or

b) we seek some kind of government regulation of jumping (most likely regulation of only the "teaching" of beginner jumpers)

I'm honestly interested in which of these two courses of action you think would be superior.

Thanks!
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Why don't you learn a little bit more about BASE before you try to argue this point? It's not a B...it's an S.



Josh,

Relax. This is just an internet discussion. It's net effect on real life is fairly low.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Guess what, JP...WE ARE THE GOVERNING BODY.



Of what? Judging but the discusions about JT, and the Radix preview, you're not doing a good job Mr President.

I'll be sure to come seek your aproval befor I jump YOUR bridge.

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IT IS NOT A BUSINESS.



What's not a business? Your jumps? Or his? (Tanning guy) Or the multitudes of BASE courses that have sprung up?

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You're a non-BASE jumper, so why don't you let us handle this?



You know my first instintc is to lable you with a derogatory term. Instead, I'll just assume you're ego can't handle the fact that you're not as special as you think. Why don't you take that attitude to the Sheriff, or the people who allow you to jump from that span. Tell them their ideas and comments are worthless and not welcome. See how long you keep jumping there, because that in essence is what you're doing buy trying to sabatoge the TANNING GUY.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Or better yet, why ask permission at your drop zone? How about I just put signs up, come to the AIRPORT, and start giving wingsuit instruction. Public airport, right? So what would you say about that? The airport, at least most of them, is used by the general public, not just the drop zone. Any better? Forget your drop zone, I'm just coming to the airport to do wingsuit instruction. Are you OK with that?

Don't worry, Tom, I'm learning stuff too, and I'm trying to teach something to the skydivers about BASE, and more importantly, our S.

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The reasons given included:

1) Antiquated gear
2) Inadequate preparation for both students and instructor
3) Possible impact on US BASE if there is an accident
4) Potential injury to participants who are not fully apprised of the risks

It seems somewhat disingenuous to merely repeat the question, and disregard the answers that have already been given in the thread. Just because you disagree with the answer someone gives does not mean they didn't give an answer.




From what I have dicerned, no one actually KNOWS he is using antiquated gear or more importantly, gear that is unsafe. It was stated that he gives them some ground training prior. Impact? Since it's legal to jump this site I am assuming you mean if something happens to a jumper. Again, I see the majority of the liability being on him. Could the spill over effect BASE, yes it could, but so could any other BASE type of accident at this or any other site.

I don't disagree with any of the replies given or with anyone. I have yet to get a solid answer as to why anyone would want to shut this guys business down.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Why don't you learn a little bit more about BASE before you try to argue this point? It's not a B...it's an S.



OK, I'll buy the typo, my bad. But don't attack me because I ask a simple question.


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A friend of mine, also a static line jumpmaster, had a student go in when the guy pushed off the strut, backflipped into the lines, got tangled in them, and died on impact.



Are you talking a civilian system or a Military one? You know what, don't answer that. It has nothing to do with the topic and won't answer mine, and others question.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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These two statements seem to be at odds. Do you think it's a good idea to seek regulation from the authorities?



They do seem to be at odds at the first glance.

However regulation from a relativly ignorant goverment agency is probably just gonna be bad. If BASE jumpers are that concerned about regulation then they should form an intermediary body to buffer the goverment from the jumpers. Kind of like the USPA does.

PLEASE NOTE: That the above statement in no way confirms mu suport or lack of for the USPA or the way they do things.

Also my first statement:
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Then form a regulatory body, get it approved by the powers that control activities at the bridge, and THEN you can control what activities happen there.


does not mean I suport a plan like this. I in fact do not suport regulation for BASE jumping. I sugest that people do their business and go on their way disturbing things as little as possible. That's what BASE means to me, it's an idividual thing, that's the attraction I have to it. Most of this discusion turns my stomach to the thought of ever participating in the sport again.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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i think you are wrong, last time i checked it was almost impossible for someone to get hold of BASE gear as opposed to buying skydiving gear - I myself have refused to sell gear to someone I felt should not have it



I bought my first rig used off the base board with no questions asked beyond shipping address.

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I have yet to get a solid answer as to why anyone would want to shut this guys business down.



I don't think anyone has said they want to shut him down.

But, I could see people wanting to do so. The motivation would be concern for the potential impact on the site, specifically the impact if an ill-prepared or poorly equipped "student" was hurt or killed.

Having an out of town BASE jumper come here and get hurt is one thing. Imagine the uproar if (for somewhat exaggerated example) the 17 year old daughter of the mayor went in doing something that was advertised as "safer than any skydive".

I guess the short answer to your question is "site preservation."
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Because it isn't a business, it's some yahoo trying to make a quick buck. Thanks for you considerate response though, much more appropriate than what's going on right now.

So I'll do the same thing. I'm not trying to ruin his "business." I've talked to him, and he told me all about his antique gear, lack of experience, etc. Just as we are trying to remedy the situation involving experienced jumpers doing stupid stuff, we are trying to remedy a yahoo throwing people off a bridge that people are already trying to close. He wants to get rich quick, and look at what he is willing to do in order to make money...risk the only legal S in the U.S.

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Are you talking a civilian system or a Military one? You know what, don't answer that. It has nothing to do with the topic and won't answer mine, and others question.



I do think that some discussion of the system used is appropriate, as it helps in reaching conclusions about the level of risk.

I don't know jack about military parachute systems. Bryan, on the other hand, knows quite a bit--that's what you get from being a military demonstration parachutist, coach and instructor. Maybe I'll see if I can take him down to have a look at the tanning guy's gear when he gets here this afternoon.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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He wants to get rich quick...



Interestingly, I'm not sure this is true.

The tanning guy apparently put friends of his off for some time, for free, before opening this little business. I don't think he expects to make a ton of money at it.

I'd guess he's more doing it because he thinks its fun, or cool, or whatever. I'm sure it's nice to make a little money, but I doubt that's his primary motivation. If it was, you'd see him advertising heavily, putting jumpers off every weekend, etc.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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I guess the short answer to your question is "site preservation."



And I both understand and applaude that. I just see the "chickening out" sabotage tactics as the wrong way to do that. A discusion with the man might be the way to go. I would probably be hesitant to involve the athorities because as of now it sounds like the "tolerate" the activities that go on there. It would probably be no skin of of their nose to stop activities. Don't rock the boat thinking, if you know what I mean.

I've heard the term "our" bridge handed out a few times here. That only applies if you're talking about every tax payer in the US. I would say that thoes tax payers that live in the state might be able to claim a bigger share of the "our" and of those I'll suggest that BASE jumpers are a minority. They guy that drives to and from work every day probably deserves to have a bigger say in what goes on from theat bridge than someone who jets up there from out of town for a weekend. The point is all this hollering and yelling does not change the fat that the TANNING GUY has not done, and is not doing anything illegal.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I guess the short answer to your question is "site preservation."



I totally agree with this answer. I also stated earlier that :

The way I see it, you have 2 choices here.

1. You(the BASE community) can distance yourselves from this guy and hope he doesn't have any accidents that will shed an unwelcome light on the sport and or close this B for everyone.

2. Someone could go and check his operation out, make sure his gear and support is up to snuff. Maybe give him some advice on how to better do a thing or two so that your protecting the site for everyone in the long run.


I agree with you Tom in that I don't think this guy is trying to get rich. If he turns out to be a hazard to himself,others and the site then by all means, he should be convinced to close his operation down or at least stop providing this service and charging people.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Tom, you may be right. But charging $110 a jumper, with a minimum of 10 jumpers, $1,100 seems like a lot of money to be made in a single morning.




PT Barnum hit the nail on the head when he said: " There is an ass for every saddle" If people are willing to pay it then I figure he will get it.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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I've heard the term "our" bridge handed out a few times here. That only applies if you're talking about every tax payer in the US.



Nope. I meant every taxpayer in the state of Idaho. We own the bridge at the state level. I pay my taxes here, and I think that entitles me to a voice regarding the use of state property.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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I wasn't addressing only your use of the "our" classification but you're right it does entitle you to a "voice". About an equal share as the "TANNING GUY" or the people who drive across every day.


Is all this crap what BASE has become about?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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If it makes you feel any better, we just "chickened out." He talked to one of the "moms," whose two kids are set to do it. He said not to worry, they're in their 20s, and that really doesn't apply in this situation...he's put off people as young as 12. I wasn't trying to sabotage his business, I was trying to gain information. He's not expecting us, so don't worry about the sabotage.

The rigs are 15-18 years old, which doesn't matter, because "nylon doesn't break down like silk does. Skydivers' parachutes do, though, because they fly them in the sun, and the sun WILL break down nylon. But you won't be in the air for that long."

When I talked to BR about a water rig, they said that water WOULD weaken the nylon. 15-18 years of dropping these things in the water...yet they haven't weakened?? Opinions?

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When I talked to BR about a water rig, they said that water WOULD weaken the nylon. 15-18 years of dropping these things in the water...yet they haven't weakened?? Opinions?



Well the guy is an asshat for exposing himself to liability, and possibly endangering the lives of his students.

I've seen all sorts of old gear that is WAY functional.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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"you're not doing a good job Mr President.

I'll be sure to come seek your aproval befor I jump YOUR bridge."

JP, you've got plenty of skydives. If you really want to make a BASE jump, if you take the proper steps (find a mentor or go through a FJC), then I would have no problem with you jumping the bridge.

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