We finally got our gear back from the NPS!!

[clint 1]

It was going to be my 200th jump so we went to a certain place in southeastern Utah. My dad and brother just arrived here on vacation. My friend from CO was here also so we were going to explore and find a new jump for my 200th.

I went flying with our pilot in our C-182 a few months ago and I saw several nice cliffs, so that morning we started to hike and we found a couple of jumpable exit points but we weren't sure of the landing area so we kept exploring.


Then the winds came up so we didn't plan on jumping. It was blowing 15-20mph. So my dad, brother and my 2 dogs went down the switchback and I told them appox. where we were going to jump.

When we decided that we weren't going to jump because of the winds, we told them to drive up the road abit further so they could see where we were on the wall. So we were still exploring and then the NPS showed up.

Well my dad just passed into CNP but didn't really see the sign. They were looking and being facinated by the cliffs.
Well the dogs were out, in the NP and the Park Ranger un-buckled his holster on his gun. My dad got scared when he saw this.

The ranger told my dad that dogs were not allowed in the park. Honest mistake. Then he asked what he was doing there. He told them that we were BASE jumping. We saw the truck pull up to the our van and we didn't think anything of it. My brother called up to me and told me that the ranger told them they had to leave and take the dogs out of the park. They were in the park by 1/4 mile. I then asked the ranger if we could jump off of this exit point. HE said no because it was in the NP. I said oh, I didn't know that we were in the NP, cool no problems, I was just curious, it's way too windy anyway. He told my brother to tell us to meet him at our car and not too leave so he could tell us where we could jump. So we thought that he was going to tell us to jump north of the switchback.

Well, when we got back to the car he wanted our driver's license, so we gave it to him. He seemed ok until he took our gear. We thought he was going to just check to see who we are but he took our gear.

HE said because we had the intent to jump. Because we had gear on our back and ground crew. He asked us if we saw a fence with sign on it and we said no. As far as we knew we didn't do anthing wrong. It was too windy to jumps so we went exploring. We had to bring our rigs because we weren't going to leave them there and then get lost.

WE didnt' see any signs or anything. IT was too windy to jump and we were just hiking. You are allowed to hike in the NP but not with your rig on, both of us knew this but we did not know that we were in the NP. We were in the park by 50' maybe 75'. We looked on the topo map later.

We just got our rigs back on Monday. 10 days of not having gear and all my friends(20)were in town from the east coast to jump. That sucked!!

I did borrow a rig on the last day that they were here and 9 of us jumped good 'ol "frozen pizza" for my 200th!! Yahoo!

So the morrel of the story is if your near a NP, make sure you know where the boundry is and don't cross it with your rig on. Leave it at the boundry, and that's if there is one.

Clint MacBeth
Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP
M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012

[RoadRash 0]

Hey Clint!
I'm glad everything turned out O.K. following that fiasco...which reminds me now that I am posting...I need to write some rave reviews about your awesome DZ. Keep in touch and send some pics.


~R+R

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[Gaper 0]

edit: What Kevin said. Let's try to keep the outbursts under control. ~ Tom Aiello

Go forth now, to the promised lands, and swear much unto each other, with mighty profanity and many personal attacks. T.A.

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Strong feelings aside, lets not create enemies in the play ground. I'm not in any way condoning what that perticular NPS officer did. Just remember that he is probably a resident of MOAB and therfore could greatly undermine the locals opinion of all of us. I suggest that unless anyone has anything constructive to say, that we let this thread die and move on.

[base428 1]

Why is it illegal to have a parachute in a National Park if you're not jumping? What law was broken?

Just curious....as this crosses over to BDay as well.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[Gaper 0]

Remember a guy named HITLER He wasn’t killing Jews, everyone said he’s to nice to do that no one wanted to upset him either. Just be quiet and pretend it isn’t happening and it’ll be OK . That’s just fine until they have you in a gas chamber. NPS kept saying we don’t really want to do this, BULL they enjoyed it . That’s where the laughter came from! they drew first blood!

Go forth now, to the promised lands, and swear much unto each other, with mighty profanity and many personal attacks. T.A.

[Gaper 0]

I called the park service in Yosemite and at Lake Powell and they both said you can clime the rock and that’s OK but if you have a parachute you will go to jail.

Go forth now, to the promised lands, and swear much unto each other, with mighty profanity and many personal attacks. T.A.

[Gaper 0]

Kevin are you going to let the playground bully beat your kid ,or are you going to do something about it?

Go forth now, to the promised lands, and swear much unto each other, with mighty profanity and many personal attacks. T.A.

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Quote

Kevin are you going to let the playground bully beat your kid ,or are you going to do something about it?

Of course not I would teach my kid to fight his fights. I suppose that those involved will now be pursuing leagal action against the park service to ensure that the indignity suffered never happens again. Is this correct? If not then whats the point of this thread. Is it just a place to vent or will it be a place where real action is taken.

[clint 1]

Jason,

I intend to find out!! WE are pursuing this!

Clint MacBeth
Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP
M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012

[nicknitro71 0]

Your tax dollar goes into this and liberation. You gotta love it

Memento Audere Semper

903

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Quote

Jason,

I intend to find out!! WE are pursuing this!

In that case you may want to speak to Harry Parker. He had worked extensivly on the "It's our park too" campain. Perhaps he can offer a direction to take. I would also get in contact with Jason Bell. He has also worked closely with the NPS on bridge day and may be able to put you in contact with the right people. Good luck.

[chuckbrown 0]

It's illegal to jump in a national park. It's not illegal to possess a parachute in a national park. The problem arises because the person possessing the parachute, if they have accomplices (ground crew or other jumpers), is exposed to a conspiracy charge. If the evidence is that someone was climbing up to an exit point that they know is in a national park with a parachute on their back with ground crew below or other jumpers in tow, chances are a conspiracy charge will stick. NPS will say they conspired to violate the regulations against jumping in a national park, and took positive action towards carrying out the violation (climbing to the exit point). On the other hand, its doubtful the same fact scenario would support a conspiracy charge where, as in this case, the jumpers didn't know they crossed into the park, and, therefore, didn't intend to violate the law against jumping in a national park. By the same token, it takes two to conspire, so if you go solo into the park, they can't get you for conspiracy, and, as far as I can tell there is no regulation prohibiting the possession of a parachute in a national park. Having said that, you'll still have to hire a lawyer to fight the feds if they decide to confiscate the rig they see in the back seat of your car. It's probably smart just to leave the rig hidden if you take a daytrip to a national park, even if you don't intend to jump.

[nicknitro71 0]

Quote

It's probably smart just to leave the rig hidden if you take a daytrip to a national park, even if you don't intend to jump

Well if you plan to jump I don't think it's smart to leave the rig hidden unless you wonna make it an one-shot deal type of jump

Memento Audere Semper

903

[angrymofo 0]

Hearing this BS makes me wanna do something. I'm not big on flik'n rocks but I have a deep respect for ones rights. That was outright wrong for the NPS to pull that BS.
This rangers actions are a deliberate blow on all BASE jumpers. He didnt have to take the rig,,,just wanted to be the bully.
Its becoming a fight I want to confront. Had that been me they tried to take the rig from, I'd be in jail or shot. That ranger needs his *ss kicked up and down Utah! Sorry if I offend any jumpers!! But I have held this in long enough.
I'm wondering if the NPS has ever been confronted while media was around? Does anyone have video of thier rigs being con'd when they didnt jump?
I'd like to be the adult and let this go,,,,but the NPS are the ones acting like children. Are they so bored and not needed that they must harrass jumpers? Cant you see the public getting P*ssed thier tax dollars are wasted by the NPS bothering BASE jumpers??
Why is it OK to damage/alter rock with climbing, but BASE which leaves the area un-altered is illegal. If rescue is such a problem,,,dont do it! I'd rather be helped by another BASER rather than a NPS or search and rescue idiot anyway!!!

Clint- Glad to hear you got the rig back. If you had done something wrong,,they would have kept it! Get a good lawyer and ring'em out. Maybe this could open some doors and bring attention to the NPS problem.

Tip- if Law enforcement asks for ID, ask what you have done wrong. By Law they must tell you what you are held for. If they donot/cannot give you a reason,,,slowly walk away. The pigs know how to manipulate words to get what they want,,,dont give them a chance!
I quit taking Sh*t from bullies in grade school!!! I will teach my kids to fight the fights brought to them, unlike I was taught. Take no sh*t from no one!! No Fighting gets us the government we now have. I'm not about to stand down and accept prejudice against BASE!!

Freedom is not Free!
Sorry Kevin!!!!

"The Only good Fed is a d**d Fed" - Rosenthal
ANGRYMOFO

[TomAiello 25]

I'm resurrecting BASE428's posting from the last NPS thread:

Quote

See next months SKYDIVING magazine. There is an interesting article written by RH where he interviewed some of the main players within the NPS regarding BASE jumping. The NPS is saying they will not just give us the customary, textbook NO answer when BASE jumping requests are received....however, they will at least study anything sent to them before making a decision. Also mentioned by the NPS was the fact that most of the 1980's anti-BASE NPS personnel are now long gone.....

these times...they are a changing, I hope.

There have been many previous attempts to gain access to National Parks. Most notably, the 1999 protest jump from El Cap. In my recent discussions with RH, we estimate there are about 6 people in the US that are actively pursuing backcountry parachuting legality. RH, Vertigo, myself, and a few others routinely do something to further the sport. Of course, many others also have done or are currently working on gaining access as well. RH has probably done the most work as of late and he's got an amazing plan in place that starts with the smaller parks (the Lake, for example). Baby steps, I always say.....once we prove the success at the Lake after several months, then we can move onto bigger areas, eventually ending up a few years later in Yosemite.

The CJAA was on the right track a few years ago, but nobody had any motivation to make anything happen. Leadership was also suspect.

If RH would make it available, I would urge him to post his "Backcountry Parachuting Plan" for other jumpers to read and provide comments. Since the BASE jumpers of the US are spread out all over the country, it's hard to meet in person to tackle these issues. It might benefit us if the loyal readers of THE BASE ZONE were to work together on this in some way. Maybe there's a way to start a separate forum dedicated to this? I could easily create a member-only or public forum on my own discussion forum located at www.vertical-visions.com, but it currently only hosts the Bridge Day forum and does not get much traffic.

In the meantime, I'm currently talking to jumpers about either restarting the CJAA or starting a similar, new organization with very specific goals.

See Jason, all that typing didn't go to waste...

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[KevinMcGuire 0]

No need to apologize to me. I was simply trying to mellow the tone down a bit. when I read "they drew first blood" and the other more inflammatory remarks, it made me think back to the days and attitudes that lead the NPS to develop such a staunch hatred of BASE jumpers in the first place. I never said that we should lay down for NPS but making threats against the lives of others is no way to further our cause. That sort of thing will only widen the rift.

[angrymofo 0]

Quote

No need to apologize to me. I was simply trying to mellow the tone down a bit. when I read "they drew first blood" and the other more inflammatory remarks, it made me think back to the days and attitudes that lead the NPS to develop such a staunch hatred of BASE jumpers in the first place.
-----COOL, I totally understand!!!

I never said that we should lay down for NPS but making threats against the lives of others is no way to further our cause. That sort of thing will only widen the rift.

-----My Post was not inteneded to be a threat in anyway. I dont know why you thought lives were threatend. I was just trying to express my hatred towards these federal cowards. I believe & hope Karma will do its job on them all. I can only hope it involves physical pain to each and all of them.
Again sorry if my post offends anyone,,,unless your a fed!!
CYA,
ANGRYMOFO

[KevinMcGuire 0]

I was not rerfering to you. You did not offend me. It's all good bro. I was referring to some of Gapers earlier remarks that were removed by Tom

[base428 1]

Thanks for the resurrection, Tom!

This is a tough issue. At times, I also feel like ringing the necks of the offending NPS personnel who abuse their powers (hint: NPS pulls guns on jumpers in WV - Oct. 2003, NPS confiscates gear from Clint and friends - 2004, etc.) . However, as most of us know, anger and retalliation isn't going to get us anywhere.

If we're going to fight the good fight, let's do it the right way. Mudslinging and threats of lawsuits will only bury us further.

Have you spoken to your Congressman or Senator lately about BASE in National Parks? At least one BASE jumper has....and he got his Congressman to write several letters to the NPS. These letters were a big step forward for us.

There is nothing preventing us from presenting our own plan to the NPS for legal BASE in National Parks. As I said before, bend over and take it like a man when you get caught in a National Park, OR you can do something positive to change their policy toward BASE!

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[clint 1]

I haven't had alot of time to deal with this issue right now but I intend to when I can.

Flying over a NP is allowed but no less than 2000'.
They want to get rid of flying over the NP all together.
THat makes no sense. The scenic flight companies are worried about that because that is what they do, they fly over the NP. They are going to raise the 2000' make soon, to approx. 4000'.

Doesnt' make sense.
This is a good thread. Keep it going, lots of info!

Clint MacBeth
Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP
M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012

[jalisco 0]

What is the rational for the proposed fly-over rules changes? I could understand if they're trying to reduce the impact of noise and polution on my experience of the park. For example, a fly-by while you were snowmobiling through Yellowstone would just, like, ruin it, wouldn't it?

[clint 1]

I have no idea on that one. Maybe the noise thing but it's still BS. My friend is writting a letter to a Senator and hopefully some action will be resolved.
This should not happen again and we'll make sure we stir the pot in congress and get some action on this.

Clint MacBeth
Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP
M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012