Pin v. Velcro

[Faber 0]

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Previously, a poster suggested that unnecessarily complex technology is ok in BASE, since we should all be careful enough in packing to catch potentially fatal errors before they occur.

This is a highly dangerous attitude to have in our sport. A key factor in the relative safety of BASE gear is both its simplicity and its design to minimize the ease with which fatal packing errors can occur

I agree,but sometimes you have to calculate if the tool your using is good to you or not.

I belive its a personal dessision.Do you mean this gear is the rigth one to the job,is it whithin your personnal safe margn?then its the rigth for you(unless its becours you dont know better)
I belive most of us wont do some of thouse extreme arials,some does around the world,we all have our personal limit.I think its the same in the gear thing.some wants the most simpel,some wants the newest high tech.Some goes the mittelway

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[PerFlare 0]

Here we go :) I did register ... so now I can spend even more time on the www instead of jumping.

I just like to emphasize this. I have one of the early Prism. It came with this configuration (with a long velcro stripe along the side). On my third jump I did go head down and had quite a hesitation as a result. No big deal when you go slider down and take one second delay from 250m ;) but anyway.

You do really need to be careful with a Prism with this configuration. If you have one or are buying a Prism and intend to use it for sub terminal jumping I recommend you to get the rig updated.

But as always, who am I to tell you what to do ... or not to do.

And Tom, thanks for putting in all the work to manage this forum.

SeeYa
PerFlare

Please forgive my English. It is not my first language.

[skreamer 1]

Last year at the Friflaj festival in Sweden they showed an ultralow wingsuit chop on the big screen. Was that your chop? You could actually hear the collective plop as the audiences asses puckered...

[Faber 0]

Pink reserve?Yes i think that were Per Flare,that were close,good reaction stearing it

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[PerFlare 0]

Hi,

Yes it was me who managed to almost get my self killed there, fortunately I did turn my camera on so I could please my brother and sisters with the footage ;)

It scared the crap out of me but it was quite a ground rush, at least when you consider that I was using skydiving gear ;)

On a serious note. Me, and especially my mother, was pleased to see that reservride come out okay. I do hope nobody are jumping those wingsuits without the modification made after this ... well ... incident.

SeeYa
PerFlare

[flyinryan 0]

I think that this is important to discuss stuff like this. I have never meet d-dog so sharing info online is the only way to hear his thoughts. I think d-dog seems ( could be faking ) like a really knowlagable guy. And if you stop learning in BASE then you start increasing your chances of injury exponentailly.

Yeah, that little velcro guy that will prvent bridle entaglment "should" also prevent flaping of the briddle from extracting the pin. Ofcourse if you are fallling long enough for the flaping of the bridle to be an issue you could just go stowed and negate that.

As for the increased complexity...I think that is more of a personal opinion. I do not feel my Vertex is overly complex, but that is just my opinion. I also want to point out that the packing mistake that you mention was on a velcro rig.

BASE 853

[Dd0g 0]

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I think that this is important to discuss stuff like this. I have never meet d-dog so sharing info online is the only way to hear his thoughts. I think d-dog seems ( could be faking ) like a really knowlagable guy.

As my friend Per knows, once you meet me in person you'll no longer think I know much of anything

To clarify once again, my general comments regarding unsafe BASE gear design should not be taken as applying to modern pin rigs - I believe modern pin rigs are structurally sound, and it is my personal preference alone that leads me to use velcro rigs. I used the discussion of pin rigs to leap off into a more diffuse discussion of BASE gear design, nothing more.

Peace,

D-d0g

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[Basejumperjeff 0]

I would have to say that I would be a little nervous if the motivation behind new gear advancements was to make the gear idiot proof. I would prefer that gear manufacturers and jumpers would be looking for ways to improve consistency in openings, reliability in heading control, eliminating common malfuctions. I beleive making changes for the sake of idiots hurts the rest of us. Are we going to have bridles that do not remove from the canopy, risers that cannot be removed, pilot chutes that cannot be changed, or whatever was the cause of a few BASE fatalities. This is not meant to say that I don't wish it only took me 10 minutes to pack instead of 45.

I think that Base jumping in general, not just packing, requires a high level of gear knowledge and awareness. Just as in skydiving you need to know how to fly a canopy befor you can swoop a pond. As to in BASE you need to know the fundamentals of rigging to pack a BASE rig.

If you make BASE to simple then we might attract a jumper who may have no business in this sport to start with and just asking for an accident. As I know everyone understand, BASE is dangerous, no matter how you cut it. And if you are not paying attention, mother earth is going to jump up and bite you in the ass.

[ManBird 0]

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As my friend Per knows, once you meet me in person you'll no longer think I know much of anything

I've seen you around, and you do look pretty dumb. j/k... kinda.

Just scored a PC10, so I'll be able to do ground crew pretty soon.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[460 0]

I wish things were as simple as Basejumperjeff suggests.

Two things: after 300 tower climbs, some from 250 and many up to 2000, pin rigs are impractical on towers. they also are impractical for super-sneaking or cliff climbing.

It only takes one mistake to end your life or be paralyzed. think about yourself in the field packing over and over and making one little mistake with results that would horrify your friends and family. The best equipment is the simplist. You can complicate matters, but there is that 1 in a 1000 factor associated with complicated equipment that will arise without any predictions.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[Faber 0]

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pin rigs are impractical on towers. they also are impractical for super-sneaking or cliff climbing.

I have just got my #1 pin rig,i have never jumped it.I would like to know were to be ekstra careful vs velcro then.
Most i know jumps pin rig.I have 30 jumps in a velcro rig,and even whith new velcro, i can open it by(dont know the word)stretching/making a cannonball or so.I have tryed that i had to secure the velcro while climbing.
I thourgth that the pin would be more safe also by climbing.
Any idea how to secure a pin rig better in that case then?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[ManBird 0]

Is your velcro rig used? The veclro shouldn't separate that easily. Put new velcro on, for sure.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[Faber 0]

This test were done the day after i got new velcro on.I got it used so i got new velcro on before jumping it at all.
By the experience i have by MY velcro rig,it should max have 50 jumops before replacing the velcro.
It should be said that it only could pop it when the rig were tigtened(legstraps and so on).I have only had "problems" climbing,when i have hit somthing whith it.I have never had any problems at exit.
I always do gear chek before jumping,to be sure its all okay.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[CrazyThomas 0]

in the interest of POSITIVE discussion


sorry.....not worth talking about.
Let me retract my words and say say sorry.
Sorry, it is not worth discussing.


Later,
Thomas