TomAiello

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There are several issues here but the biggest one is catching the bad guys that would do harm against us.

Why is that the biggest one?

Simply collecting that data is a massive abuse of our rights. There's also a huge potential for mis-use (what if someone's estranged spouse is part of the data sifting organization, for example?).

I don't believe that the potential increase in "safety" us worth the abridgment of rights necessary to create it.

I'll take my society more free and less "safe," thanks.

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...me as a Libertarian voted GOP...... well I can tell you that's not true in my case. I did vote for Barr.

Oh, man. Why? You could have just written in Ron Paul.

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I have not voted for a libertarian candidate in a presidential election since that vote would be pissed away in the larger scope.

I vote Libertarian any time that;

(a) my vote won't matter because the state I live in leans so heavily one way (California) or the other (Idaho), or;

(b) the GOP candidate is from the "moral majority" segment of that party.


I do vote for a fair number of Republicans. I've also (substantially less often) voted for some Democrats. But most of the time I end up voting for a Libertarian who has no chance of winning.

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There are many flavors of Libertarianism; just as there are many flavors of other political/social philosophy. Only one extreme end of that spectrum calls for total anarchy.

That's not quite right.

Even the most extreme libertarians are not anarchists.

The dividing line between libertarianism and anarchism is the willingness to allow government to exercise force (anarchists say "no, not at all," libertarians say "only reactively."). That's a very fundamental, and fairly large, difference.

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Now they have gone to the other extreme. Nominating the most extreme right wing piece of Shit the republican Party ever had the dishonor of being associated with.. Bob Barr.

There is an important difference between a Libertarian (i.e. member of the US Libertarian party) and a libertarian.

Bob Barr is a complete tool. I lost a lot of faith in the LP when they nominated him. I am fairly interested in seeing what happens with them next time around, as there is now (mostly because of Barr) a fairly vocal "reform the LP" movement within the LP itself.

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Sounds like someone subscribed to oatmeal enthusiast magazine.

Hilariously, I've just discovered something I have in common with Kallend. I eat oatmeal every day for breakfast.

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We are thin and in shape and still spend quite a bit more than families we know.

It has to do with diet, more than anything. The healthier and more consciously you eat, the more you pay.

The more time you have, and the more willingness to grow food and prepare it, the more you can cut those costs down. Generally, though, it's only old boring people who do that sort of thing.

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I think they're understaffed for the big tasks at hand and it's impossible for them to give a shit about something as far down the chain as me.

And that makes it all ok?

That's like saying it's ok to invade Mexico, because our army is so busy in Iraq and Afghanistan that it won't do much damage in Mexico anyway.

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They may have some other weird crap going on in this specific case as well we're not privy to, like maybe it' a matter of mistaken identity / people with the same name ect.

Yeah.

They confused her with the other person who had applied to enroll their kid at that school, and whom it would have been totally reasonable to tail for three weeks.

Sure. That's it.

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Here's an article that reinforces exactly why I have no fear of Big Brother.

Well, ok then, since they're incompetent, having them wantonly violate our rights is all okey-dokey, right?

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The idea that the government is tracking an average person's every move or listening and reading every communication is simply ridiculous. While it's true that computers may do this on a gross level, there is simply too much data for anyone to possibly give a shit about the average person as an individual.

So, if the smallest details of your personal life are recorded by the government, you're ok with that, because there's so much data that no one will actually give a shit?

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I went to Petco Park a few months back here in San Diego and they had - GET THIS! - plastic glasses! When will the madness end?

Holy Shit! Petco Park is the new government? I hadn't heard.

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In that case we should increase taxes across the board, to make people more involved in government. Would that make you happy?

Why do we want people to be more involved in government?

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So.. I really have to ask.. how many of all you self professed "Libertarians" and "Anarchists" could actually live in a world where there were no government intrusion and only the strong survive???

You don't understand the difference between Libertarians and Anarchists, do you?

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People who drive stolen cars are criminals. You equate them with those who get services for free (see the OP).

I'm pretty sure you were the one who brought up the idea of driving a car without paying for it.

Regardless, what makes you equate people who are poor with people who get services for free?

In this example, we're talking about people with household incomes of 50k/yr not paying federal income tax. What's your definition of "poor," anyway?

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Equating poor people with criminals gives us insight into some of your other opinions.

Heck, since I've been both very poor and a criminal at different times in my life, I'm not sure how to take that.

Where did I equate poor people and criminals? I'm not really seeing that in what I wrote.

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I'm all for tolerance; sometimes a line has to be drawn though.

Why?

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I'm confused as to why we need the government's permission to marry in the first place. Wouldn't this be easier if the government just got out of the marriage business altogether?

Good point. Tax and inheritance ramifications, maybe?

There are also health insurance issues, under the (screwed up) employment-based system we currently use.

In terms of inheritance, I think it's easy enough to just write a will, regardless of marital status.

In terms of taxation, it would be easy enough to just eliminate joint returns (or, alternately, allow them for any two--or more, if you like--people who choose to file together). Of course, simply eliminating the income tax would be my preferred solution.

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when you get something for free, you're not that intested in how it runs.

Utter nonsense.

Really? Ever seen someone drive a rental car?

...

Maybe you get them for free or steal them, but I have to pay for car rentals.

In that case;

Have you ever seen someone drive a stolen car?

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So what's your point? We disregard the law? Man-made laws sure, but mother natures?

Mother nature has a lot of immoral things happen out there in the wild. But of course, people debate what of that is 'immoral'.

The only thing I can see as truly immoral is forcing another adult to do something against their will.

If they're doing it voluntarily, how can that be immoral?

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Originally registered and always have been Indepedent.

As in, "unaffiliated with any party," or as in "member of the American Independent Party?"

I'd actually be curious to hear what your score on the test is, now that you've categorized yourself for us.

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...I'm sure the Courts would see it exactly as you do . . .

I'm sure they wouldn't actually. But then, the courts (and the laws) condone all sorts of things I thing are totally immoral (income taxes, for example), and at the same time condemn all sorts of things I think are totally fine (recreational drug use, for example).

So what's your point? We disregard the law? Man-made laws sure, but mother natures?

What was it that Gandhi said about unjust laws?

I don't believe that mother nature has laws we can break. Physical laws aside, what we perceive as "natural" law is pretty much just our perception. I'm pretty sure that nature will not be outraged if I go out and have sex with a horse or a monkey tonight. Nature certainly isn't going to be very concerned if I have sex with a man. Now my wife, she may have something to say about those things.

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...I'm sure the Courts would see it exactly as you do . . .

I'm sure they wouldn't actually. But then, the courts (and the laws) condone all sorts of things I thing are totally immoral (income taxes, for example), and at the same time condemn all sorts of things I think are totally fine (recreational drug use, for example).

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The government is busy doing all sorts of things that should not involve them.

Yup.

And, as in this case, creating all kinds of unnecessary complications as a result.

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Take the test and see where you fit.

That's pretty ugly test. Just look on "Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more" - c'mon, gimme a break. I wonder why there is no "Everyone be happy and healthy" statement.

Actually, I was very surprised when I started giving it to a bunch of people and learned that it seemed fairly accurate. I had originally thought it was slanted to give a bunch of "false libertarian" results--meaning that it encouraged people to answer in a libertarian way. In practice, it didn't work out that way. Lots of people were landing in other places, where you'd expect them to based on their self-identification and policy positions.