EFS4LIFE

I have a Samurai 136. I had Brian Germain install a pocketed slider because I have a bad neck from a motorcycle accident and quick openings suck for me. If you like a snivel I suggest having a rigger do this! Warning though it can take 1000 feet to open so don't be pulling low with one installed. Airlocks are awesome. As Brian has stated NO canopy is collapse proof, but all you have to do is fly one with airlocks and see that wing still inflated laying on the ground and my money is betting they are in fact safer. You can definitely feel how more rigid the wing is than an open cell type. The accordian effect that gave me that little uneasy feeling is gone. I still would not jump in questionable winds, but I feel more confident under my Sam. Brian has stopped major production unfortunately. Pick one up used while you can! I will update with flight characteristics later when I have more jumps under it.

That I believe was in response to why I like a flat glide. What is your argument against that statement? I am an asshole, but I am honest

and now I un-did! I am an asshole, but I am honest

God I hope Dave and Bill actually take the time to scroll back and read my replies. They have been buried by ignorant comments. I am an asshole, but I am honest

read your own signature line. Who is the dipshit? LMAO I am an asshole, but I am honest

Bravo! Why do I always hear crap like it is safer to skydive then drive your car or cross the street? You are throwing yourself out of an airplane and relying on some nylon to catch air and keep you from killing yourself. It is NOT safe. I am an asshole, but I am honest

Mommy he said he was done with the thread but he won't stop posting! I'm telling! Grow up, stop bitching. Quit reading it then. Some people are actually starting to have a good talk here about it, and you have to start crying. Go away or join the meaningful part of the conversation. I am an asshole, but I am honest

Who said I am done arguing my point? Again stop reading if it bothers you. I will stop when I feel like it. You can stop anytime as well. I am an asshole, but I am honest

Are you gonna keep me from replying and posting? No? Then stop bitching, shut up, and either talk about the subject, or quit reading the thread. I am an asshole, but I am honest

Bill Which despite the majority consensus here is what I believe I am doing with MYSELF. See I believe I am safer learning how to fly an elliptical on this large lightly loaded Stiletto, rather then progressing down to smaller sizes and then switching to an elliptical later. I was talking with one of the instructors at my dz (BTW not the one who gave me the ok to jump my ST 190) that has in the area of 700 jumps. He jumps a Stiletto 135. I believe his progression was Sabre2 190, Stiletto 170, Stiletto 150, then recently a Stiletto 135. I asked him if he thought his Sabre2 prepared him for the things like body position, and symmetrical flaring that you need on a full elliptical, and he said honestly no not really. He said that it gave him good experience, but when he started jumping the ST 170 he realized he had bad habits. He also stated other than the responsiveness to those bad habits, the obvious faster turns, and constantly having closed end cells on the Sabre2 he did not really feel that much of a difference between it and his Sabre2. I thought um isn't that a lot of difference though? Lol. Why shouldn't I learn those good habits now before ever downsizing? Yeah it easy to say just practice them on a square, but realistically think about it. With everything else a jumper with my experience is learning, free flying, etc. I will not concentrate on that unless I have a canopy that gives me feedback when I let it slip. After having to kick out of line twist because I let that shoulder dip I say "Well that was dumb of me!" I never blame the pack job for twist like some idiots. That is usually always due to body position in my experience. Sometimes you can get one side of the canopy inflating first and causing a spin, but mostly I see bad body position. And Bill I am not trying to doubt your experience but at this size and wing loading it hasn't "spun" up on me to the point of being on my back and cutting away. Once I used some REALLY shitty body position because I was pumped about turning 16 points on a 4 way (I know not much but for me from 10,500 feet it was awesome) and had about 5 twist but it kept flying straight. That is not to say it can't put me in an unrecoverable spin, but it is tamer. If it does I do know my EP's. IF it ever started diving in twist screw the canopy I am chopping. That much I promise. As far as the demos, yeah I know you can get em free. Unfortunately I work at a small family DZ that doesn't have the luxury of having them. We only have 5 or 6 employees and a 182. My DZ also relies heavily on me to be there for help in packing, teaching FJC, and coaching, but mainly packing. IT kicks the TI's ass when I work at my real job every other weekend and they have to do the tandems, shag them, and pack them. Consequently I have not gone off to boogies and left them hanging, in return they have really taken care of me. Letting me keep ungodly balances on my account, let me pay off over long periods for gear, and yes do things that most of you would consider against the grain, i.e. jump my Stiletto. These people have also seen EVERY jump I have made and know my skill level far better than most instructors know their typical student at larger DZ's. I know I am in the lower levels of experience. I really do not want to come off as some hotshot jerk who knows better than the guys who have been around forever, but I do believe in my logic, and I do feel quite safe on it. I really am conservative in my flying too. I know people hear 100 jump wonder on a Stiletto and they conger images of a push the envelope badass. LMAO that is not me. I just want to learn, and I think that this canopy has taught me more than I otherwise would have learned by a long shot with still being safe. I am an asshole, but I am honest

Dave. I cannot debate the fact that I have not completed the progression. I cannot debate you have more experience. I enjoy a debate, but come on bud it has to be debatable in the first place. No one is going to debate hard facts like that. Thats like saying I want to debate that on a clear day the sky is blue, now I have the blue side you debate another color. To answer the question you asked though I base it on the things I have learned under it versus squares. I don't think you have disputed the characteristics I listed about the canopy. You just dispute that someone of my experience level can handle them. I say it will make me a better pilot. Basically you say I will get hurt or die. I guess the compromise here is if I don't get hurt or die I will be a better pilot! Or will flying the Stiletto make me a worse pilot somehow? When Nelson wanted his students to learn on squares they said the same thing. I am not advocating students jump ellipticals, but I hope you can see the parallel there. Time will tell I guess. I am an asshole, but I am honest

dave your whole posts debates nothing I have said. It basically says it exceeds my skill level (how you know this without knowing my skill level is unknown to me) and we know best because we have more experience (even though many of us made the same "mistakes") This has been repeated over and over again on this thread. I get it. Not trying to debate your experience, or listen to how much I have none. Doesn't "stoke my ego" I guess lmao. I am an asshole, but I am honest

I never advocated that. I just said it happens a lot. It is by far what I would consider common place. I think we all see that. Me for one have not downsized once, and I see no reason to for several hundred if not a thousand jumps on the Stiletto 190. I am still learning a lot on this canopy. I feel they are lessons I would not learn on a square. I will not go to a 170 until I have wrung ever last ounce out of the 190, and know that I have mastered it. That is a long way off brother, and despite what some people on here think, they do not know my personality, and I am wise enough to know that I am nowhere near ready for a downsize. I would argue that at a 190 with a 1 to 1 WL a Stiletto does not react that "poorly" to mistakes. It reacts for sure, and lets me know it, but it is way tamer than the smaller highly loaded ones that most are familiar with. If I ever get the chance to I will. I am not going to go out and pay for the demo as I am content with the Stiletto 190 for now and financially invested in it, but that is definitely a suggestion I will consider for my next canopy whenever I do downsize, lol but that is far away and who knows what else will be available by that time. I have heard a lot of great things about it though for sure. Not that it really matters, but isn't it semi-elliptical? I am an asshole, but I am honest

I did not say it was the canopy's fault at all. I agree it is the jumper's fault. My statement is that a square will let you get away with those bad habits without a measurable consequence, therefore allowing you to ignore things like practicing proper body position, symmetrical flaring, etc. because when you do make those mistakes at a large size and light wingloading on a square you do not really see the effect. The Stiletto in the same size gives me definite measurable consequences without downsizing, and although the reactions that occur from my mistakes on it are measurable they are quite tame at that size and WL. I am an asshole, but I am honest

d123 Hey twit nice way to dodge anything relevant to my post I am an asshole, but I am honest

Damn straight it is. Contrary to popular belief on this thread I did not post to get approval from people that have never met me, nor to ruffle feathers, nor to be a troll, or anything else. I only posted to relate my experience with the Stiletto at 1 to 1 on a 190. I have made major mistakes on this canopy. Mistakes that could have got me hurt or killed on smaller HP's, but because of the larger size and light wingloading I learned and didn't get hurt. My only point was it is better to learn an elliptical BEFORE downsizing if you ever plan on flying one. People with a 160 jumps (BARELY) more experience than me ( like 20 jumps more and NO experience on an elliptical I venture to guess) or even better people with 50 LMAO can be a smart ass and asshole all they want if it makes them feel big. Go for it big! Lol, the guys with thousands of jumps well we disagree, so be it. I can accept that, can you? Look I have spun myself up with bad body position, pulled my wing unlevel with a non-symmetrical flare, (still stood it up with a bit of running ONLY because of the large size and light WL) and I am still here, and plan to comment at 500 jumps with a BIG told ya so. I would also venture to guess that at those 500 jumps I will be a hell of a lot better canopy pilot than the "average" at 500, because of the experience of jumping that larger elliptical vs. a square. I know, God I know, this is just too big of an ego right? I have some facts that I would like someone to contest. I have mentioned them several times, but they have been conveniently ignored. One, an elliptical is more sensitive to body position upon deployment. Two, an elliptical is more sensitive to harness input (even inadvertently) Three, it is easier to produce an uneven wing on landing by an unsymmetrical flare with an elliptical. I will assume that everyone can agree on these. That, if agreed upon begs me to ask one question. Why would you have someone learn these things on a smaller (read less forgiving) size? That is essentially what you are advocating. Several hundred jumps equals DOWNSIZING. If you think a jumper won't you are kidding yourself. After all many of you yourself did too right? If not all. So I get a few hundred jumps on a square, downsize one or two sizes, and get a couple hundred more. Then all the sudden I decided I can handle an elliptical (probably with another downsize added in the mix) Now you have a jumper that eats it or bounces. Congratulations! I advocate a jumper learn an elliptical on the larger sizes with lighter wingloading, if he ever wants to fly one. I just don't see how hundreds of jumps on squares can help you when you have been learning bad habits on them the whole time. Can someone please have an intellectual debate about that? The bad attitude "your gonna bounce shit" has gotten old. I get that is your opinion. Now talk about my reasoning, and if you disagree, then why. I really am all ears, if you you are. Blue ones I am an asshole, but I am honest

I told you they can't help it! They love it and can't stop. At your rate of jumps I would never let you off student status. Do you have to do a coach jump every time you make a trip to the DZ? Shut your mouth you sound like an idiot. I have over 2.5 times your experience crammed into a factor of 13 LESS time. Have you heard of currency? Have you ever jumped a Stiletto 190 at 1 to 1? So basically you don't know what you are talking about. Spoon fed baby regurgitating shit he was fed bravo! Remember a closed mouth gathers no foot! Too others who claim to have the experience of flying a Stiletto 190 at 1 to 1 WOW is all I can say. I have pulled my wing uneven on an imperfectly flair. I still stood it up. No spectacular wipeout. Just keep flying it to the ground. I have thrown myself into bad line twist with bad body position and not had to cut away. The thing is that canopy actually allows me to see the effects of those things in my current size and wingloading without downsizing and also be forgiving enough to let me get away with it while you can get away with it on squares without a measurable consequence. You can learn bad habits that way. Oh wait, I forgot I have no clue what I am saying right? I did not post on this thread to get you approval despite your attempts to say otherwise. I enjoy a debate, unlike many of you obviously. I know many call me a troll, so be it. My topics ARE relevant to the topic and are NOT meant to provoke an "EMOTIONAL" response. If you get emotional that is your problem. I am guilty of it as well but I am not crying about it. To the one post NO I have not flown a Sabre. Not sure if you meant an original or a Sabre2 but I will address both. The original, well go read the reviews on this dorkzone. Hard openings which it is notorious for? No thank you. Sabre2....ummm have you been listening? I like a FLAT glide. After demoing the Storm and telling PD I did not want to go steep they immediately discarded the Sabre2 as an option because it is steeper. Steepness. It comes down to decision time. I am not experienced enough to deal with LESS decision time under canopy. The faster my descent rate...the faster I have to set up for landing....the faster I am coming down...period. The idiot who posted about the faster speed of a Stiletto is well, an idiot. Definition- Someone who is not informed. A stiletto does not have a faster forward speed. Read "Choosing the right canopy" on PD's website. Get educated. It turns faster yes, but forward speed is not faster. Do I need to post another quote or link proving it? If you disagree with my canopy choice FINE I think we ALL understand that. Do yourself a favor and debate WHY. I will tell you all about my experiences under the scenarios you propose if I have had them. If I haven't I will tell you I haven't, and will gladly listen and truly consider them. I only have 130 jumps. I KNOW THAT, despite what you think. I have not run into enough scenarios to know it all, honestly neither has ANYONE here. None of us know it all. The second you think you do you are more of a danger to others in the air than I will EVER be under my Stiletto 190. I am an asshole, but I am honest

Well considering this is the first and only thread I have ever posted to I didn't know, but I should have figured. Truer words have not been spoken...at least on this thread. You sir are a smart individual. I just wonder how many of them have the balls to admit it. Probably none. I wonder how many downsized faster than they recommend to others. I would bet the majority. I am.

Do you know what a troll is? Let me help you out. Here is the definition from wikipedia: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. Now I don't think I exactly fit that definition. My post are quite on topic actually, and if you want to say my comments are inflammatory because I do not agree with you or that my PRIMARY attempt is to provoke an emotional response then please get over yourself and get off your high horse, guess what not everyone is going to agree with you. I am an asshole, but I am honest

Neither am I. You made the claim that I think I do, without even knowing me. You failed. I am an asshole, but I am honest

And I gave you an out loud answer Ian. I said in the thread I did not lie about any information when requesting the demo. Everyone seems to think I am a liar, and the "out loud question" you asked seems to suggest that too. Hence the posters that you "set straight." Scratch why don't you just start a pool about where my DZ is? What is it to you anyway? I am an asshole, but I am honest

My buddy just bought a Saffire2 188 or 189 Whatever is the closest to 190. I forget the exact size they manufacture. He has offered to let me jump it. I will take him up on that. Hey if it is FLAT, responsive, and I can get the great landings I am all for it. Like I said I like the Stiletto 190 for it's characteristics. They are what I am looking for in my canopy. If I can find those things without the sensitive and quirky openings I would be happy. Every canopy has it's positives and negatives IMO. The Stiletto is no different, but people who tell me I can't fly a canopy with the characteristics I want are on crack. I don't have to be "cool" and I don't have to fly a HP. But I know what I want in my canopy. I love being able to plane it out on landing and fly it for awhile. (NOT HOOK TURNING) So far the ONLY canopy I have tried that I could accomplish that on is a Stiletto. My landings have never been so soft. Everything else has pretty much been a one stage flare. People have told me that will change as I downsize and get more wingloading, but I do not want to downsize. I see no reason to. So I will take your advice and try the Saffire2 next time my bud is at the DZ. If I can get those type of landings, and it is flat I may be game to change my canopy. I am an asshole, but I am honest

I am not questioning Ian's ability or experience. I am calling him an idiot if he believes I am lying about demoing a ST 190 from PD when he works there and could easily verify it, but instead wants to publicly doubt my "claim" I HAVE put 10 times the effort into learning. I only post on here in my free time between skydiving and work, which isn't much. 7 jumps this weekend. Not as much as the TI's and video guys do, but hey I was on the packing mat the whole time too, plus teaching a first jump course. So are you saying I should not choose to fly a flat canopy? I mean now you are going to dictate the glide of my canopy? I can't like a flat canopy? The Pulse is flat. I liked that one. Would you have beef if I was flying a Pulse 190? Bigger? So you think a 1 to 1 WL is too much for a jumper with 130 jumps? Lol isn't that pretty much standard beginner WL? By the way I DO feel competent on the Stiletto 190 which is why I am flying one. I didn't pick the Stiletto because I think I am being "cool" as some have said. Why wouldn't I just pick a Katana or Velo then? I picked the Stiletto because it has ALL of the characteristics I am looking for. Flat, responsive, sensitive to inputs, and great landings (although requiring adjustments) I honestly would fly a Pulse if it had the same qualities. Hell I don't care if it was called the Newbie or Stu 190 and everyone gave me shit about it I would choose it because of the qualities I want in my canopy. As you should be able to tell by now I don't listen to people giving me shit I am an asshole, but I am honest

Sorry I was busy at the DZ skydiving. See you all were too busy on here to get any jumping in though. I am an asshole, but I am honest

Jesus guys I am taking your advice. I will resurrect the thread in a couple years at 500 jumps. Why are you still all talking about it? I will still jump my Stiletto until then. Don't like it? I DON'T CARE. Ian the guy from PD who thinks I am a liar must be an idiot because if he works for PD then he would know that they actually have only one ST 190 in the demo program and currently it is in my container. All he would have to do is go talk to alex (i think that was his name, maybe adam, something with an A) who is in charge of the demo program and find out. The Stiletto in the larger sizes they now produce are not the same as a smaller highly wingloaded ones. Christ want to test it? Demo one. If you can wingload a ST at 1 to 1 in a 190 go for it. Make several jumps on one and then post. Until then no matter how much experience you have it is not relative is it? I have 43 jumps on it now. I think that has given me plenty of experience to talk about it's characteristics. I have thrown myself into wicked line twist by using bad body position. I didn't have a cutaway. Even if I had to I DO know my emergency procedures. As far as a canopy collision are you serious? I am a competent enough pilot to not put myself in that position, and anyone with 130 jumps freaking should be or I don't want to jump with them. I think that RobinHeid's post about flying right did have some merit no matter how much you rip him on it. I have never not stood up a landing on it. EVER. I have landed downwind, crosswind, in no wind, heavy wind, and guess what? Not even a grass stain. The comment about the Sabre2. Well you obviously did not read my post about the steep glides. I DO NOT feel comfortable on a steep glide. I feel rushed. I am coming down faster, and have LESS decision time. You want jumpers in the air feeling uncomfortable? That's smart! That is where the shit happens like PANIC turns. Don't like my attitude because I am not "listening" fine you don't know me, and I don't know you. I urge anyone to take what they hear on the internet with a grain of salt. Listen to your instructors, not the skygods on dorkzone. Despite what has been posted I am not looking for some approval. I already have it from the only people who matter, my instructors at my DZ. I feel funny saying my instructors, because I am no longer a student at 130 jumps, a B license, and a coach rating, but as long as I am still learning from them I will continue to call them that, because that is what they are. I never asked for your approval, so stop acting like I did. I was just posting my opinion. I "listen" a lot better in person I guess, but it is funny the people that know me and have seen me fly have never called me stupid or criticized my canopy choice. People with thousands of skydives. Maybe I am "above average" but I don't think of myself that way. Nothing has come easy for me. I have trained my butt off, and worked on everything very hard. Every opportunity I get I am at the DZ packing and jumping my ass off. Hell it has caused problems with my girlfriend because of my devotion to this sport. 130 jumps in 11 months may not seem like a whole lot until you take into account that I have to work every other weekend. My numbers would be double if I had a 9 to 5. I never said any jumper with 100 jumps should or even could fly a Stiletto. I am just saying that a jumper who has shown the capacity to not pull low, flies conservatively, and maybe has the experience of making a low turn under a more forgiving canopy and was lucky enough to walk away from it and learn his lesson can safely fly one. I stand by the statement that is can be a good choice to try an elliptical in the same size and wingloading BEFORE downsizing. Ian that is on your company's website as well, what do you have to say about that statement? I am liar though right? I would rather have a jumper learn to fly an elliptical on a larger more forgiving size then downsize a few sizes, then jump on one thinking he is the shit, and get himself hurt. I know I am not "the shit" and I have a DEEP respect for the canopy I am flying. Hey skygods let this post die, please. I will talk to you all in a couple years at the prescribed 500 jumps. Of course then it will be "dumb luck" that I didn't get myself hurt or killed, and you will still refute my experience and testimony so it doesn't matter... but I will still be the one who won't listen. I am an asshole, but I am honest