Hooknswoop

The only sure way to get to “ZERO public mass murders” is zero guns. I am reminded of Obelixtim’s post in the US Air Traffic Control Vote in Congress thread; “But that might have been their intention all along. The lesson is to fight all the way..... “ What happens when there is another mass murder after the above is adopted? Derek V

I see the bill of rights as equally important rights. In the same sense that the oath of allegiance I took a long time ago, all of it is equally important. Parts of it are not important than other parts. I would no more give up my right to free speech than unreasonable search and seizure or freedom of religion. I am not sure if I answered your question or not. Derek V

I am not suggesting anyone give up. I am attempting to explain the resistance to more restrictions and understand why you want change. That understanding (why and why not change) is, I believe, the key to both side of the discussion moving forward instead of just talking past each other. Derek V

Same as, for example, the 1st amendment. It is just as important a right, to me.

I asked you, and kallend, (anything more modern than a musket for kallend and 6+ round magazines for you) both of you did not answer. No. Passed in 1999. Derek V

Did you think you could convince me that we need more gun restrictions? I was never under the illusion that I could convince you that we don't. If you don't own guns, who cares if they restrict them more? Derek V

You missed the point. Diminishing returns. We could do more for 747 crashes and we could do more with gun-deaths. We eventually reach a point of diminishing returns. That point is going to be different for different topics. 747's, guns, vehicles. Did you know the equivalent of a full 747 passenger load dies every day in vehicle accidents. But a 747 crash has a much larger emotional impact than a bunch of car crashes across the country. This affects the return on investment equation. Why does the gun discussion heat up after a mass shooting event but not after someone getting shot in the poorer neighborhoods of Chicago? The emotional reaction to the event. Derek V

Not in there. Do all the research and background checks you like. Derek V

Good thing 747's aren't in the Bill of Rights then. Derek V

Well, to a point. We could do more. But there is a point of diminishing returns. How much are we willing to pay for a plane ticket? I don't agree. Just like 747 (or any plane) crashes, we do what we can, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Derek V

I don't 'fit' into any political group. I look at each issue independently from other issues. The gun debate tends to provoke an emotional response. What I mean is that a 747 crashing and everyone dieing results in a different response than the equivalent number of people dying in one day in car crashes. "Greene decided to slide people into an fMRI machine to glimpse what happened in their brains when faced with different trolley-problem scenarios. He ultimately found that the answers people gave correlated with how emotionally engaged they felt with the dilemma. The decision to pull the switch was related to activity in the prefrontal cortex (associated with cool, conscious deliberation), while the decision not to push the fat man involved areas like the amygdala, associated with strong emotional reactivity." Derek V

Pro-choice. Why do you ask? Derek V

Until your suggestion didn’t work because the server went down or whatever. Well, until it becomes a need.... Why would I do that? I’m ok with how things are. Derek V

OK. We have a different goal (normiss's goal was "I'd be good with ZERO public mass murders, ZERO bump fire stocks permitted, and ZERO public access to full auto weapons."). How do you suggest we get there? Please be specific. Derek V

I don't think you have characterized what I wrote accurately at all. Derek V

I ask you your goal; "I'd be good with ZERO public mass murders, ZERO bump fire stocks permitted, and ZERO public access to full auto weapons. " I ask how to get there; "Start with enforcing penalties for existing laws to prosecute irresponsible gun owners, new restrictions to prevent access to rapid fire military type weapons and accessories that enable semi-autos a similar function , universal background checks on ALL transfers of weapons. We'd probably be wise to include some increased security measures at all public functions, making us ALL sacrifice more for the support of the second. All because dead people. I'm sure they would gladly trade their sacrifice for ours. " I tell you that your solution will not work. Your reply?; "OK cool, let's just do nothing and hope it isn't us killed for nothing. Film of next mass murder at 11! " Come up with a solution that will; A- Work. B- Not infringe on my rights. And we will talk. Derek V

A reasonable list. I'm not sure what you mean, specifically; "rapid fire military type weapons". The problem is that list will do nothing towards your goal of "ZERO public mass murders". Derek V

Fair enough. How would you get to "ZERO public mass murders" Derek V

Yes. Yes. Derek V

Would you be good with ZERO guns? Derek V

This is what I meant about bringing emotion into the discussion. Derek V

What WOULDN'T constitute a problem for you? Derek V

Apples and oranges. There would not be more restrictions on candidates, the course would just have higher standards. Also, your metrics are lacking. An AFFI doesn't just keep the student alive, they teach. Both in free fall and on the ground. If they can fly better, they can teach better. That is why I think the course should back to the old standard. Not because of the fatality rate for AFF jumps, but because of the higher quality AFFI's. Derek V

So, making laws based on emotion and not logic results in bad laws. See the Colorado magazine restriction for a good example. I was at a gun range recently. You could buy 30-round magazine "kits". Same magazine as before the new law, you just had to take about 15 seconds and assemble it. Derek V

Correct. Good question. Increased restrictions with small to no decrease in gun-deaths. Derek V