dudeman17

rehmwa

Since I was being blatantly, obtusely, obviously blunt about the mockery of PC fanatics. Also, without any subtlety there. I choose to believe that Dudeman was also being wry and cynical and going along with the jest. A brother, so to speak, of the funny bone.

P.S. (D-Man: I tend to advocate that actions are important, and the PC tendency of people to dismiss them in lieu of nonsense cosmetic differences and whiny excuses is a sore point with me. So my post was wry - your post had nothing but agreement from me. You need to read my post with a sarcastic tone and you'll get the drift that I was on your side).

P.P.S. Oh, and the use of the phrase "D-Man" should also not be misconstrued either. Though it does have potential......

P.P.P.S. maybe the PPS was not needed and perhaps might aggravate the situation...or not

That. I can be pretty dry myself sometimes. The longer paragraph in my reply was actually in response to some other posts, perhaps I should have noted that.

P.P.P.P.S. We're starting to sound like Sylvester.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkhPuH8G5Hg

rehmwa

***I had a similar incident happen to me a while back. ....... He handed me back my license, and we both went on about our day, safe and sound.

you need to stop talking about your 'actions'
what you 'do' doesn't matter

I can't even assess your story without three more pieces of info

your race
your political affiliation
have you ever shot a lion

only then may we judge you

Are you trying to curtail my free speech rights? Are you racist?

I'm a middle aged white guy and I got pulled over for not having a front license plate. My point was that I complied with the traffic stop and I did not get shot.

People want to hold the officer accountable for his actions. I have no problem with that. But some people do not want to hold suspects accountable for theirs. I do have a problem with that. The suspect was not (presumably) being asked to get out of his car because he did not have a front plate, it was because he would not produce a license and had alcohol. The suspect did not get shot because he didn't have a front plate, it was because he was fleeing from the cops. The escalation was all on the suspect. No, I don't think the guy deserved to get shot, but if he had simply complied, he would not have been. Some people seem to think it's okay to just drive off from the cops? That's anarchy.

My political affiliation is none of your business, and I have not shot any lions.

Skycop pointed out the same thing I saw in the video. From where the initial stop takes place, you can see a parked car, an oil stain, and a pole a ways down the street. The cop asks for ID, the guy hems and haws. The cop opens the door and asks the guy to take off his seatbelt, presumably to get him out of the car. Instead of complying, the guy shuts the door, starts the car and begins to drive away. The cop yells 'stop, stop' then shoots. Then he falls on his ass, and you can see that he's closer to the parked car, the oil stain and the pole, supporting his claim that he was being dragged down the street. This could reasonably put him in fear of his life. Fleeing suspects often crash into innocent people, which means that the public was also in danger. I don't necessarily think the guy deserved to get shot in the head, but as in many of these cases, if the suspect had simply complied with the lawful orders of the officer, none of this would have happened.

I had a similar incident happen to me a while back. Like this guy, I was pulled over by a cop and informed that it was because my car was lacking the front license plate. Like this guy, I was asked to produce my driver's license. Here's where things went radically different. Me, I handed the cop my license. He looked at it and asked if I was in possession of the missing plate. I said yes, that it was at my home. He said I should put it on my car. I said that I would. He handed me back my license, and we both went on about our day, safe and sound.

ShotterMG

...Sue their asses.

Please do not ever show up to a drop zone again. Seriously. Stay away. Skydiving is not for you.

DJL

Why are you all being dickwads?

JohnnyMarko

...the post just screams lawyer/ulterior motives to me.

That's why.

You can clearly hear the kid say, "Mom flipped". Moms are specifically instructed NOT to flip. Apparently Mom decided to flip anyway, putting her and her instructor at risk, and it affected their trajectory. Mom should be banned from ever skydiving again.

Welcome back!!

Good to see you in the sky again, Mr. Deli. And I can appreciate all the old-school touches - except one. Unfurl Sammy Skull, yell 'Black Death' on takeoff, wear all black, wear a frap hat, I'm down with all that. But pleeeeaase don't hold on to that pilot chute, haha!

Tacos and Hobbits!!

This is a great thread, but I think it's cheesy if you nominate yourself. Especially if you haven't actually made a jump in years.

Just sayin...

So did you ever make this jump? If so, how did it go?

So how did it go?

Everybody's kidding about this, right? I disagree with about everything I've read in this thread. I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but here goes.

Best advice I can give you is this:
Don't do it.

You're taking parachuting into an abstract environment. If you don't know enough about what you're doing to suss out every detail of every aspect of this, and pull off this jump confidently and competently without needing to seek advice on an internet forum, then don't do it.

Skydiving gear? I'll address altitude in a moment, but for what you're considering, base gear would probably be more appropriate, because the environment would be more like a base jump. Don't do it.

Altitude? You think you're going to get 3,000 to 5,000 feet? Really? I don't know much about paragliding, and I don't know where you're flying from, and if I'm wrong about this then I'm wrong and excuse me, but I doubt you'll get that. Unless you're flying from some serious mountains, most places I'm aware of people paragliding around where I'm from, you're more likely to get from a few hundred feet to maybe a bit over a grand. Again, if I'm wrong about this part and you're seriously going to get thousands of feet to work with, then perhaps you can disregard most of my post, but make damn sure what you're going to get before you do this.

Altitude point #2. Which altimeter to use? Unless you can absolutely guarantee thousands of feet and specifically where you're going to land, then leave your altimeters at home. If you don't know what altitude you're at and what you have to work with from a purely visual perspective, then don't do it.

Your pilot is experienced, but there may be a language barrier? If this guy's not your buddy and someone you can confidently work with and have no communication issues, then don't do it.

Here's the scenario: You think you're going to have thousands of feet and know exactly where you're going to land. So what happens if you climb on this guy's glider with your bagged and slidered skydiving rig, then at some point when you're maybe 500 feet over not at all where you thought you'd be, well you cant really tell what this guy's saying but you're pretty sure he wants you to leave now - what then?

Turbulence? Be prepared for that, but yeah, impacting at bridle stretch would be pretty turbulent.

Again - if I'm wrong about the altitude thing, and you're absolutely positively going to have 3,000' or better to work with, then maybe you can disregard most of what I've said. But I'll repeat what I think is the most important thing I have said:

You're taking parachuting into an abstract environment. If you don't know enough about what you're doing to suss out every detail of every aspect of this, and pull off this jump confidently and competently without needing to seek advice on an internet forum, then don't do it.

Please.

Arvoitus

No, its a CIA contraption from the 50's.

Hey, John Wayne took a ride on one of those, so you KNOW it's badass!

To answer the OP's question, it does look to me like he passed out. He appears to be wearing white gloves, and at first under canopy he appears to be holding his hands up in front of him. At some point his hands drop to his sides and he appears to be limp. He never seems to move again, no real effort to lift his legs, and no apparent movement right after landing. Looks like the TI did a decent job of surfing him in, considering.

However, older, limp pax's can get hurt if their feet or knees stub in. There's a way around that. If the TI puts his feet to one side of each leg (say the right foot to the left side of the right leg, the left foot to the left side of the left leg), then as you land you kick their legs to the side and roll that way, basically doing a tandem version of a PLF. It looks awkward, but it can prevent injuries.

The Sorcerer did indeed have a disconnect for a 'normal' reserve activation. It had a pud on the left shoulder that when pulled, disconnected the lanyard from the main riser, opened the container, extracted a hand deployed pilot chute and deployed the reserve independently as a pull-out type system.

riggerrob

******...but it has certainly been the most "trouble free" device I have ever invented...

It's distressing that I have to write this, but historical accuracy demands it. I have been skydiving for 35 years, and I am as big a fan of Bill Booth as anybody, and in no way do I mean to denigrate him or his contributions to our sport. But he did not invent the skyhook. He may have redesigned it for skydiving rigs, but the first MARD system was invented by Mark Hewitt, on a base rig called the Sorcerer, and Bill knows this. Credit is deserved where credit is due.

.............................................................................

Yes, but Mark Hewitt invented a pin-type MARD, while Bill
Booth invented a hook-type MARD. Two radically-different RSLs that do the same job.


Like I said, Bill may have redesigned it, and I appreciate that, and I appreciate as much as anybody what Bill has contributed to our sport. I just thought that if the word 'invented' was being used in this thread, then Mark deserved mention. And I hope you and others can appreciate that.

billbooth

...but it has certainly been the most "trouble free" device I have ever invented...

It's distressing that I have to write this, but historical accuracy demands it. I have been skydiving for 35 years, and I am as big a fan of Bill Booth as anybody, and in no way do I mean to denigrate him or his contributions to our sport. But he did not invent the skyhook. He may have redesigned it for skydiving rigs, but the first MARD system was invented by Mark Hewitt, on a base rig called the Sorcerer, and Bill knows this. Credit is deserved where credit is due.

chuteless

...I tried to get permission from a DZ owner/operator to do a Mr. Bill, but I would be holding onto the other guy and not wearing chute, so I would land with him. I got a real stern look from the DZO, and said, no I don't think I can allow that...

Hell, at our drop zone we do that all day long every week. We even have special rigs built specifically for it. And check this out; we (the experienced jumpers) wear the chutes, and we get whuffos who've never made a jump in their lives to do the chuteless Mr. Bill part. They show up in droves, and here's the really cool part: they PAY us for it!!

As for the nudity thing, by God if the Good Lord had wanted us to be naked, we would have been BORN that wa... oh, wait...

Related to Chuck Sweeney?

+1 to what everyone else has said. Don't be intimidated, skydivers pretty much everywhere are friendly, welcoming people. Plusses for the west coast are that Perris and Elsinore are within half an hour of each other, so you have both options available, and if you want to spend a day touristing somewhere else, there are a lot of things to do within an hour or so. Whichever way you go, do have fun!

Well as a sort of older jumper I can appreciate the history of pea gravel. But with today's canopies the landing swoop is usually longer than the pit is wide. And even landing tandems on windy days, I don't like landing in the pit because the damn stuff gets in my shoes.

Bill Booth did not invent the skyhook. I'm sure he redesigned how it works on his rigs, but the concept of direct bagging a reserve off of a cutaway main was invented by Mark Hewitt. The first 'skyhook' equipped rig was a base rig called the Sorcerer. Not to diminish Mr. Booth's contributions, but to give credit where credit is due.

chuckakers

***I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading on here, especially from the older-time jumpers, so I'll reiterate a point I made earlier. In skydiving, NOBODY has the right-of-way. It's EVERYONE'S responsibility to keep THEMSELVES alive from every angle and possibility. Two people skiing probably aren't going to die if they collide. Two people skydiving probably are, and you don't get to crawl out of your crater and dust yourself off just because you think it was the other guy's fault. If you're leaving ANY part of your survival up to someone else, then you clearly don't fully understand the situation you're putting yourself in and how it needs to be dealt with.

That's crap.

Accepted skydiving procedures do indeed include right of ways, and if you skydive the same way you advocate, it is YOU that is dangerous. You DO have a responsibility to yield to those below you, and if you don't agree with that I suggest you get the hell off the plane.

You must believe that others think of "right of way" as a law, which of course it isn't. The term "right of way" refers to an agreed upon procedure, not an absolute. No one here has said that the person below has the right to do as they please without regard to what's happening around them because of a right of way privilege. Right of way is a concept designed to take variables and confusion out of a situation, which is crucial in skydiving where decisions must be made split-second in an environment where the ability to do so is the difference between life and death.

As I mentioned in a previous post, it IS the responsibility of every jumper to check the air above - which can be accomplished without a barrel roll - and give a clear signal before throwing out. What the "right of way" folks are saying is that following a "low man has the right of way" procedure is safer than people taking their attention off targets below with a full body twirl, which can create a whole new world of deadly possibilities.

No one is arguing that we don't need to clear the air above. We are arguing about the safest way to get it done. Unless a person has a mobility issue, there is NO NEED to perform a barrel roll to clear the air above, which brings into question the concept of performing a barrel roll and taking one's eyes off the area below, which IS the area we are responsible to give right of way to. Get it? Every jumper IS RESPONSIBLE to YIELD TO the jumper below them. It's a ONE WAY STREET. You don't have to agree with it, but it's the accepted procedure and thus you are OBLIGATED to follow it.

And just for fun, let's try a different comparison. Try telling a cop that the guy in front of you in traffic should have gotten out of the way so you wouldn't have slammed him in the rear. Argue all you want, but it will be YOU that gets the ticket and YOUR insurance company that pays the claim.

Our vision is limited behind us, whether we stay on our bellies or barrel roll and get a "flash' of a person above us that still doesn't pinpoint whether they are a factor or not.

And finally, since you are schooling folks, let's school you. You said:

"If you're leaving ANY part of your survival up to someone else, then you clearly don't fully understand the situation you're putting yourself in and how it needs to be dealt with."

That is a very foolish comment and one I hope you will reconsider. The truth is that every one of us relies on everyone in our group for our survival on every jump. None of us can see everything at every moment on every skydive, and thus we ARE dependent on our fellow jumpers for our survival on every jump.

It's also the reason we have procedures - like focusing most of our attention on the person below, not the person above who should be following the same procedure.

I like your "it's on me" attitude, but when a jumper takes that to a point where they focus so much on their own safety that they ignore best practices that are in the best interest of EVERYONE'S safety, that's a problem.

If you can safely perform a barrel roll to clear your air while breaking off, good for you. But my bet is you can do the same thing without a barrel roll, and that would be a safer way to go.

Aww, geez, now that's why I don't post on here very often. There are always people lying in wait to take one statement out of context and convolute it into what they'd like it to mean so that they can get all haughty and throw down an argument.

Chuck, if you've read the entire thread, then you'd know from my previous post that I do not practice, nor do I advocate, the barrel roll method of clearing your airspace. And if what I've said in totality makes you think that I believe in the things that you're railing against, then perhaps you should move to Hollywood and get a job writing for the soap operas.

Chuck, both you and billvon, by the tone of your posts, have missed my point, yet within your posts, you've both MADE the same point as I have. I was trying to emphasize the point because I'm reading in here stuff like 'just wave off and wait a few seconds and let the other guy handle it', and 'watch the guy below you and let the guy above worry about you'. To be sure, in skydiving there are established protocols for breakoffs, canopy patterns, and what-not that include rights of way, and I teach, preach, and practice them every week. When I say 'nobody has the right of way', I do not mean that you should blow off yielding to the other guy's right of way. What I AM saying is that you should not bet your life on the other guy yielding to yours.

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading on here, especially from the older-time jumpers, so I'll reiterate a point I made earlier. In skydiving, NOBODY has the right-of-way. It's EVERYONE'S responsibility to keep THEMSELVES alive from every angle and possibility. Two people skiing probably aren't going to die if they collide. Two people skydiving probably are, and you don't get to crawl out of your crater and dust yourself off just because you think it was the other guy's fault. If you're leaving ANY part of your survival up to someone else, then you clearly don't fully understand the situation you're putting yourself in and how it needs to be dealt with.

The operative issue here is clearing your airspace before you pull, especially the airspace above you in the direction of your deployment. If you're backtracking and can see above you before you roll over and dump, you've got that covered, but you may not be aware of what's going on below you. If you can't barrel roll cleanly, or if your roll happens too fast to get a good view, then that's not going to work. If you just wave off and wait, figuring it's the person above you's responsibility to react, then you're abdicating your responsibility. The reaper doesn't care who's fault it is, if two people collide during deployment, you're likely both going to die. So track off and check the airspace around and below you. You can look over your shoulder to see above you as you're waving off. If someone is there, by all means track out from under them before you dump. If your standard pull altitude doesn't allow for that, then it's time to rethink that. Safety's a skill, survival an art. It's your job to not let anyone kill you, even if they're trying to, and in turn not to kill anyone else. Get killed ONCE, you can't take it back.

The Cruiselite was similar to the Comet (and the Pegasus, the Unit, the X-210...), so imagine a smaller/faster Cruiselite with a slightly mushier flare. And IIRC the Swift was a 5-cell with less aspect ratio, so yeah, the Hobbit probably lands better than that. I remember demo jumping a Swift reserve, and the slider had a square hole cutout in the center of it. During the latter part of the flare the front edge of that cutout would vibrate, essentially giving it a stall warning buzzer.

And to Ken and Muff - hey, Hobbettes can be fun!