KelliJ

"Whether you or Amazon are happy with the extent of his service is irrelevant. " That comment of mine was aimed at the relevance of any person's opinion of his service in reagrds to whether or not he served. Personally, I despise the fact that he skipped out on the last part of his obligation. But that does not negate the fact that he DID serve in the NG, he DID fly aircraft that were very unforgiving, he WAS in a squadron that could have been called up. What I am very curious is why the same people who condemn Bush for his military record always conveniently leave out the fact that Clinton flat out dodged the draft and refused to have anything at all to do with the military. That makes him ten times the coward that Bush was, along with anyone who defends Clintons actions.

When it suited him. And when it didn't, it seems he had other priorities, like Cheney. Well, since his records show that if nothing else it did suit him for at least the majority of his obligation, we can agree that he did serve in the National Guard. And, since the National Guard is (at least last I checked) a branch of the U.S. Military, then Bush did, in fact, serve in the military. Whether you or Amazon are happy with the extent of his service is irrelevant. Since I am not familiar with any wings, groups, squadrons, etc. classified as a "Champaign Squadron" by the military maybe you could be so kind as to provide a link to show where these are stationed.

Was President Bush ever a member of the National Guard?

Some of us remember Vietnam all too well... that is why so many of us think Iraq is a travesty brought about by those who dont have a fucking clue.. The people who attacked us were trained and based out of Afghanistan.. I supported and still support the effort to go after those who wish to do us harm from there. Iraq... is a NeoCon scheme to enrich themselves at any cost by trumping up a bogus enemy so they can give out as many no bid contracts to their friends to fleece the American people..... I guess those4 on the right who are not in the money stream are just to fucking stupid to see what their Chimp in Charge has really done to this country. They may be stupid but they at least acknowledge that Bush DID serve in the military. Just because you don't recognize the NG as being part of the U.S. military doesn't mean it isn't. By your own definition, your hero, BJ Clinton, was even more of a "chickenhawk" than Bush.

You need some cheese with that there Bubba? Oh by the way http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3138832#3138832 How about you... need a link to a recruiter there BUB?? I told you already that I'm not "dude". I am not "bubba" either. Your link adds nothing to the discussion. It is just an older thread about Harry. I'm not the one whining, you are. "Our President only served in the National guard but is sending troops off to war". Oh boo-hoo-hoo and waa-waa-waa.

AS opposed to the fascist right wing Bush lovers spin who trot out how great a warrior he is for having served in a Champagne Squadron and could not even finish out his duties because he would have recieved a dishonorable discharge had the cocaine he was snorting been found in his golden flow portion of the flight physical he refused to take. OOOPS you forgot that part didnt you. Anyone else who refused to take their flight physical.. and did not show up for duty... which is called AWOL.. and deriliction of duty.. would have gotten a dishonorable discharge....well except for those whose daddies were congressmen or CIA Directors or the very rich who could expunge all kinds of bad doo doo from their precious little spawns records.. no matter what kind of crap they pulled. Where did anyone say he was a great warrior? I think you just made that up. You post is merely opinionated interpretation of events. Too bad you let your resentment and hatred govern your life in such a manner. It's also a shame you felt you needed to hijack a thread about a brave soldier who deserves respect.

I am NOT "Dude", ok? Glad we understand that. Yes. I did read the article. Did you? or did you just glance over it and automatically dismiss anything you didn't want to hear? The claim that those who flew for the NG were safely out of harms way is a liberal Bush-hater spin that completely ignores the facts. Yes, the chances of getting shot down were much greater than the chances of an accident. But it doesn't detract from the fact that F-102s were a handful.

Sorry.. I was active duty during that time and knew far too many who DID go to Vietnam and did not come back. No matter how you spin it... Georgie Boy and Dan Quayle types abounded at the time.. and there was NO way in hell any of them was ever goign to Vietnam...period. Irony score: PERFECT! No matter how you spin it, you can't rewrite history by denying facts. Flying 102s was neither safe nor was it without chance of deployment. Period.

Too bad the pilots who died in accidents while flying F-102 aircraft didn't know that it was a "nice safe job" with a "zero chance of deploying". Maybe you should have informed them? www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml

a) Did I say you didn't? b) Where in this thread did you say you had? Who do you consider a coward and why?

I take it that you will be voting Republican this fall? JM will most likely be the only candidate for president who has any combat experience.

You're gorgeous too, hon.

whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine..........

Shouldn't every responsible citizen complain about the deficit? Yep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Right - they should stop voting for GOP presidents and pay up their taxes instead of griping about them. I rest my case. So you're going to vote for the Dem this time, to become part of the solution instead of part of the problem? I said in another thread that if this election comes down to Obama vs. McCain I would feel comfortable voting for either based on what I know at this time. However, there are a few months left to learn about each candidate and their positions. To say today that I would vote for a candidate from one party would be irresponsible to say the least. I do not vote according to party, nor do I vote on one issue alone.

Agreed without any doubt. I don't feel internet chats contribute in any significant way to help our countries problems unless those chats are specifically for that purpose. While there are posters who have more education than the rest, that means little to me. (Some of the most intelligent people I know, including the single most intelligent person i ever met, never had education past high school.) While there have been posts with valid information, almost every person who posts here (I'll admit I'm included) has, a one time or another, put up information that is, shall we say, "slanted". One has the responsibility to separate the good from the not-so-good info. That is why i feel these chats are not a good place to gather information on which to base your vote.

I think it shows a trend in this country for people to vote for the devil they know rather than the one they don't know. It also shows the influence of television on our elections. It has been said that without the benefit of tv, JFK would not have been elected President. Sadly, I think our voter turnout is embarrassing. Men and women have died to protect that right. Many people choose not to vote because they feel there is no candidate worth their vote. It is for those people that we should have, on every ballot, the choice of "none of the above".

Our Founding Fathers offered citizens protections that allowed them to peacefully complain about their government, so those who complain about such unnecessary wastes of national resources as the war in Iraq are, in fact, helping by making politicians aware that the war is unpopular. Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh tried a different approach to protest the federal response at Waco and Ruby Ridge, but it didn't seem to work out too well for anyone. What exactly would you suggest as an alternative? I would suggest doing exactly what you posted, only keep in mind that complaining about taxes, wars, etc. on an internet chat does nothing to help the problem. All of our elected representatives can be reached via e-mail, snail-mail, telephone, etc. It is to those people that concerns must be addressed. Preaching to the choir does nothing but make for a noisy church service. There are many here on SC who complain constantly about one or two aspects of our country almost daily. With a simple copy-paste sequence they could e-mail those same posts to their reps.

Shouldn't every responsible citizen complain about the deficit? Yep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Right - they should stop voting for GOP presidents and pay up their taxes instead of griping about them. I rest my case.

How's this for lack of variety in my lifetime: Truman lied about US involvement in "French Indo-China" Eisenhower lied about spy plane overflights of USSR Kennedy lied about Bay of Pigs Johnson lied most every time he opened his mouth Nixon lied whenever his lips moved, but especially about US troops in Laos and Cambodia, and about Watergate Ford lied about East Timor Carter lied about some firings Reagan lied, but couldn't recall what he lied about Bush1 lied about Iran/Contra and "read my lips". Clinton lied about a BJ and his sexual harassment of women. Bush2 lied about Iraq, warrantless wiretaps, the cost of the medicare prescription program. Since I know you wouldn't feel comfortable putting your hero on the same level as the rest of the crooks I fixed your post for you. You are quite welcome.

Shouldn't every responsible citizen complain about the deficit? Yep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least.

It must not be too bad of a situation or you would have moved back to the other side of the pond by now. BTW, exactly what have you done to help solve the problem of the national debt other than doing what you are required by law to do?

Truth hurts, eh? Did I dispute the graph you posted? All the whining wining your doing I think I'll buy stock in cheese. Boy, you really are sensitive about those GOP deficits. Let's see.... You complain (as always) about the deficit under Bush. I, on the other hand, do not. So tell me, Professor, who is the one sensitive about GOP deficits? You do bring laughter to my day.

Truth hurts, eh? Did I dispute the graph you posted? All the whining wining your doing I think I'll buy stock in cheese.

This goes well with whine wine.

I've often considered living there. To be free of the feds would be a great enticement to move there!