rmahoney

Thank you for your question - what I mean is approximately 25% of full brake extension, that is, toggles released = zero, arms full down to full toggle extension = 100 percent. In actual distance it is about 20 CM.

OK, please forgive this fairly basic question, (and I think I know the answer), but I wanted to get some outside advice: Just jumped a new Pilot7, new rig, and noticed on both jumps that it had a constant slow right turn - takes about 1/4 toggle to straight flight. Consistent between both jumps; harness fits perfectly and am entirely symmetrical. I suspect just a trim issue, but any and all advice would be appreciated, thanks!

1. Scott Gray 2. Chris Gray 3. Justin Shorb (Flock U) 4. Scotty Burns (Sky2Productions) 5. Ms XX FAST (plus 2 guests) - Myspace 7. Ms XX FAST - Guest 1 8. Ms XX FAST - Guest 2 9. Andreas Bauer (First Flight) 10. SimonBones!!! 11. Rick Hough (Flock U) 12. Mikey 2 Shoes Lucky 13. Penelope 14. Randy "Doc" Mahoney (SPEW Palatka) ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

Tony, you are not me. I put some of my aeronautical credentials in to explain that I fully understood the implications of a reduction in airspeed for low passes. There is another purpose: The reason I started this thread was to describe a very serious incident that I was responsible for. Particularly with such aircraft experience, I should have known better. Dumb mistake. I won't make it again. But how about those fellow wingsuiters, many with much more jump experience, who might fall into the same trap of complacency and familiarity that I did? I want to give them an opportunity to learn from my mistake. Perhaps you are correct that you would not have revelaed the credentials. That's you, this is me: I did it to further emphasize that, regardless of competence and experience, one can make a dumb error. The point is that we all learn from this, and, if necessary, revise procedures or operations to reduce the chances of similar occurences in the future. Reduction in airspeed to the same airspeed we use to drop at altitude is an appropriate action. ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

Uh.... I can speak to this and I do not agreee with you. First of all, we drop jumpers of all skill levels, not just "competent" wing suit pilots. Even competent pilots sometimes make mistakes. It is just that a small operational change, such as reducing airsspeed for lower-altitude drops, is reasonable, safe, and may prevent further mishaps. It increases safety-of-operation without compromising utility or cost. Only cost is about 30-90 seconds of extra flight time, well worth it IMHO. And controlability is not a factor in reducing speed appropriately for low-altitude drops. I think I can say this with some experience in this area. -Doc (ATP AMEL, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767, FK-28, L-282, Commercial priviliges ASEL) ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

I did confirm this; the pilot made no changes to power, altitude or attitude until after I exited. It is just that - until now - we have not had the pilot reduce power and airspeed for lower-altitude passes. It is clear that we need to totally re-think this, as it puts jumpers too close to the tail. BTW, some newer brusies for those who are medically inclined: http://www.barkbarkbark.com/almours/ ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

You are totally correct. Although I am NOT placing any of the blame for my strike on anyone but myself, it does illustrate the obvious need for some SOP regrding speeds/attitudes for lower-altitude jump runs in the Caravan. There is no reason why we can't slow down a bit when dropping jumpers low. Again, that complacency thing..... ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

The relationship between exit altitude and jumpship speed is only an operational one: Typically, if we are going to drop jumpers at 5.5/6.5, etc, the aircraft will level off during a low jump run over the airport, but will usually NOT reduce airspeed/drop flaps/reduce power, as is the practice at full altitude for the primary jumpers. While this higher speed is usually not an issue for hop and pops, and allows the aircraft to build energy for the remainder of the climb, it certainly can be a problem for wing suiters. ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

Jarno, Generally, we all know the proper exit procedures for the different aircraft. It is when we allow familiarity and complacency to creep in that we ignore them, sometimes to our peril. ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

For all of us who continue to read Scott's "wingsuit bible," that is page 86, bottom of the page. ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

I find it hard to believe that I actually did this: I hit the tail of our Caravan on exit a few days ago. It was an incredibly dumb thing to do; I KNOW BETTER. I am relating the story as a cautionary tale to others who I hope will avoid making the same mistake. Forgive the length of this post, but I hope the detail will help. I was on a “full altitude” load in our Caravan. On the way up, the scattered layer above turned to broken, then overcast. We could make 5,500, and that was about it. While the tandems stayed behind, the rest of us “up-jumpers” decided to go out at the lower altitude. I was the only wingsuit guy that day, and I was flying my Raptor. I mentally reviewed my exit, remembering that the faster aircraft speed and level flight attitude required more delay on wing deployment. Being the usual last one out, I approached the door and looked out – there was no good ground reference, so I started to close the door. As I reached up, I saw some landmarks through a thin haze, and reconsidered my decision to abort the jump. The indecision on exit allowed me to drop back into my standard exit mode, totally forgetting the differences with lower altitude/higher speed exits. Without thinking further, I just made my usual exit……and deployed my wings….at my “usual” 1-second interval. As the wings inflated, I instantly felt the higher airspeed and lift, and at that point knew I would hit the tail. There was an audible “smack” as my upper right arm hit the horizontal stabilizer. I regained stability, and was able to fly fairly normally, but with a great deal of pain in my arm. Fortunately, a practice throw went OK, so I knew I had function, and I deployed very soon thereafter, and landed without further incident. After landing, the guys who had been on the aircraft came running over to me, amazed that I was still alive. Apparently the sights and sounds of the collision were ominous. I was very lucky to be standing there talking to them. They were also lucky my impact did not damage the aircraft. My mistake could have also cost them their lives as well. I suffered only a severe contusion to the biceps and upper pectoral muscles, which are painful, but improving. Here is a current IMAGE – it is not pretty. I think I have been given an opportunity to learn some valuable lessons, and my complacency that infects those of us with 200-600 jumps was abruptly jolted out of me. Here is a PART of what I am learning: 1. There is never an excuse for not totally thinking and planning each jump. If there’s not enough time to think, then there’s not enough time to jump. The ride down is cheap compared to injury or death. 2. Always respect the tail of the aircraft. Taking an extra second or two to deploy the wings might save your life. The additional flight time is not worth it. 3. Jump with an AAD. If I had been knocked unconscious – which was a real possibility – my AAD might have been able to save my life. Without it, survival is not probable. 4. Jump with a helmet. That thin piece of fiberglass is often just enough protection to avoid unconsciousness. I never thought this would happen to me, but it did. Please do not make the same error – it could cost you your life and the lives of your friends. Complacency kills. ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

1. Scott Bland (notsane) 2. Scott Gray (The Brothers Gray) 3. Chris Gray (The Brothers Gray) 4. Todd Statdfield (DaMan) 5. Michelle Statdfield (EmLo) 6. Justin Shorb ( Flock U) 7. Jeff Nebelkopf (heffro1) 8. Chuck Blue (Z-Flock Wingsuit School) 9. Mike Masheff (Grey Mike) 10. Phil Peggs (boring uncreative name) 11. Nick Rugai (#1 gay guy) 12. LoudDan 13. Tyler Smith(jumpinfly) 14. Scotty Burns (Scottygofast & Z-flock) 15. Tero Paukku (Aerodynamite) 16. Matt Hoover 17. Rick Hough (Flock U) 18. Bob Futrell (FlyinBob) 19 Frank Boluk (FrancoR) 20 Rand Mahoney (rmahoney) ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

1. Scott Bland (notsane) 2. Matt Hoover (The111) 3. Justin Shorb (Flock U) 4. Jeff N. 5. Steve H. (Flock U) 6. Jose (turtle) 7. Yeyo 8 Josue 9. Ivan 10. Melvin 11. Danny (droquette) 12. Scott Campos (LouDiamond) 13. Chuck Blue (SkyMonkeyONE) 14. Bob Futrell (FlyinBob) 15. Matt Wells (Tennessee Matt) 16. Mike Masheff (Grey Mike) 17. Tyler Smith (jumpinfly) 18. Chris Gray (Brothers Gray) 19. Scott Gray (Brothers Gray) 20. Ward Hessig (Mirage) 21. Tony (tony-suits) 22. Jeff Donohue (Flock U) 23. Soby (Flock U) 24. Kevin O - Good Possibility 25. Phil Peggs (peggs82) 26. Rick Hough (Flock U) 27. Jarrett... Packing_Jarrett *mostly working 28. Zun (Soul Flyers) 29. Rand Mahoney (Rmahoney) 30. Eric Florio (WhuffoNoMo) ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."

*** Somebody actually looked at my profile?? I will change it to reflect my actual number of jumps >200.....(can i count my ejection from a sick TA-4 in 1978 and my "landing" under a 28' conical canopy too?? Just wondering..(G) ) Flock on! R ATP B-737, B757, B-767, L-188, FK-28, AMEL, Commercial Privileges ASEL, F/E Turbojet "Learning is not compulsory; neither is survival."