rigger_john

I'm not talking about any AAD, I'm talking about conflicting instructions. As I said, "it seems to me" that a manufacture of an AAD would be a better authority as to how it should be used. I was just wondering why we don't defer to them if there is a conflict between instructions. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

I can see where your logic comes from about the entire fit and function ect, however I can't see how making a container, no matter how good you are makes you an expert in electronics. Nor would it give you any expertise in the best way of instaling the electronics into a given rig. As I said the rules are the same here in the UK as in the US we defer to the container instructions, but I still think the manufacture of the AAD whould know better than the container manudfacture. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

The thread on the LOR2 RSL system got me thinking, here in the UK when there are conflicting instructions between the manufature of a container system and the manufature an AAD. British riggers have to follow the instructions of the container manufacture. I think thats the same in the USA to? I don't know about other organisations. I remember Stefan Earler from Paratec telling me once that he thought the job of approving a AAD in a next system was the responsibility of the AAD manufacture as they were the experts on thier kit. I tend to agree with him, so how come w give container manufactures the right to over rule AAD manufactures as to how an AAD should be fitted? Any opinions? _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

I don't belive that could hapen accidently, I mean I don't think the cable could slip into the grommet after the rig had been closed. IMO the picture shows a clear rigging error. and one that could be repeated on RW's rsl equipt rigs, but I think you would have to be trying quite hard. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

I imagine they must have tried two pins in one loop first...it IS simpler. However, it must not have worked for some reason. My guess is that sometimes one pin leaving took the other pin with it...or the pins ended up stacked on top of each other, and made too big a bump. Someone from PDF, who knows, please tell me the reason. You've got my curiosity up. When the Cypres AAD first came onto the market Airtec issued instructions for fitting it to all the availible rigs on the market. At that time the thiner loops developed by PdF did not exsist. When PdF developed the loops they issued instructions in thier container manual to use the new thiner cypres loop material and fit one pin throught each loop. However Airtec did not update thier riggers guide for instalation, so there is a conflict between what the container manufature says and the instructions availible from Airtec. I have an email from Airtec, which states they approve of the PdF twin loop system, but the current manual avalibe from the Airtec website still says to put both pins through a single Cypres loop. It also states in several places that the only loop material authorised for use with thier AAD is original Airtec material. I think it's just a case that Airtec never got round to updating thier manual so conflicting instruction exsist. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

I like it, now all i have to do is get the BPA to approve _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

I'm not suggesting any solution, just pointing out that Airtec say something other than PdF. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

Now thats intresting because according to Airtec. pg 55 of The Riggers Guide to Instalation of the Cypres AAD. "Important note on use of Cypres with LOR II as it is used in France (e.g. in the Atom, Campus and Galaxy Tandem) The LOR II system uses 2 closing loops and 2 pins through a single grommet. The principle is that in the event of an RSL-activated reserve deployment, the reserve cannot open until both main risers have positively separated from the harness. We strongly recommend the use of a 1-pin Cypres, both reserve pins going through the single loop." _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

welcome to our sewing circle.

you need to find a richer wife _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

Bill, the point I was trying to make is that in 15 years I have never seen a bag lock that was "directly" attributable to double stowing. I've seen them because of aysymetrical deployment of the line groups, I've seen bag locks caused by a bight of line getting caught on the tape that the rubber band is looped onto, but I have never seen a bag lock that was caused by a band, nor has anybody been able to show me one. Lots of people have tried to simulate a bag lock on the ground but every time the band has broken when pressure was put on the bridle, if the band hasn't broken I have been able to show every time that it was not the rubber band holding the bag closed. I'm not saying that rubber bands don't cause bag locks. I'm asking sombody to show me how they do. I know a lot of riggers and not one has been able to so far. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

You see this is why you struggle, you fail to understand that all packers are Jedi, and Riggers well they are Jedi Masters

I have seen several (3) PdF reserves with the lines coming out of the free bag stuck together, that said, they seperated with only very light pressure. I contacted an Advanced Rigger (Master) I knew, who also was a PdF dealer when I found this problem. He said that it was due to heat, (car trunk?) but that the lines would not be sticky enought to affect deployment. I understand that he got that info from the manufacture. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

I noticed you asserted with some authority that double stowing can cause bag locks I don't want to hijack this thread but some time ago I asked a question here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1738144#1738144 Smiler asked the same question earlier here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1737814#1737814 Again I repeat the question. Does anybody have ANY direct evidence of double stowing causing a mal. Just because the bag didn't open does not mean the bands were to strong I have seen a baglock on a bag that had single stow with quite weak bands. I hear a lot of anecdotal evidence but nobody has given a single case where double stowing caused a mal beyoned any doubt. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

No the Viper is a redesign of the tear drop SF. The first one was made by and for Rich Aveyard while he was working at TSE towards his riggers rating. Rich works at hibaldstow in the UK and I'm sure he could tell you lots about the viper. The next container systems are indeed made at TSE then shipped without the harness to Paratec. IIRC,That has something to do with keeping the German "TSO" valid as the harrnes has to put on by the designated manufacture, in this case paratec. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

Here at my DZ we have a loop of tape on the rear of the slider, we put a rubber band on that and the control lines are held in the band. This in on the student main canopies, similar idea to a tailgate, but easier. I don't really know if it helps reduce or eliminate line over mals as I don't have the stats from before it came into use. But we rarely see them now, and even when they are reported I tent to find that it is more likely to have been some sort of entagelment in the susspension lines that has been the real cause of the mal. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

Stefen Earler, the owner of Paratec, is one of the most approchable people I have ever met. I belive you can contact him through dropzone.com. As for the safety of his rigs, they are one of the few sports rigs that are built to the TSO C23 d catogory. I personaly belive that, most rigs are much the same these days when it comes to safety and build quality, but I would choose a next sports rig, except we don't get very good deals on them in the UK. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

ALCOHOL VS. WATER ?????? Is that meant to be a compatition, I'll have $5 on the alcohol too win

I've never been beaten but then I am also the chief rigger at my centre That might have something to do with it. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

Yes I got that & Thank you BTW, that last post was just a clarification _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

Thanks but I can make my own ripcords, what I'm after is a new die so I can use the shank and ball terminal fittings. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

Thanks Chris, I know that and I have Wobbys number, I was just trying to avoid calling him, Life is just TOOOOO short to spend it on the phone to Wobby

Not True, I have dies for shanks, balls and oval terminal ends, Lots of manufactures make there own ripcords. I can make them too but I want to know if there is a spec for the dies. Specifically the ball and shank dies as used by some manufactures. _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba

Anybody know where to find a set of specs for the manufature of the dies to set the pins and the terminal ball/ball & shank onto ripcord cables. I have contacted capewell several time but the haven't replied to any emails. Over to you guys

What NO takers _________________________________________ Nullius in Verba